[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

We, the taxpayers, shouldn't be paying people to buy a certain car. We also shouldn't be paying off student loan debt.

You kind of do not understand the student loan debt issue. First, the government isn't paying off anything. If a student took out $100,000 in loans that student has paid that $100,000 back.... it's the extra interest is occurred after 10 years of payment on a federal loan that the federal government is forgiving. Again it does not cost in the US government one penny.

[jayjayson]

Originally Posted by biker1

There aren’t any
Chinese EVs for sale in the US. There are Chinese batteries in some EV brands.

Polestar, Volvo's electric car division is owned by a Chinese company that makes it a Chinese company

[Bealman]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

When most of this demo was buying US...Union built...products, cars included, didn’t seem to be an issue. Now that the economy is shaky and we have had no problems buying and supporting Chinese based products made by workers making a pittance and in less than desirable conditions....for decades. Of course it costs more for union built products.....better wages, benefits, workplace safety and IMO product safety. So my earlier comments are based on our daily reliance on the very items we all use...that originate in China. The steel used for new commercial construction, your Nike’s, your smartphones....pharmaceuticals and on and on. I’m personally fine with paying more, using union labor and keeping manufacturing and jobs....here. Remember, you get what you pay for in life. Doesn’t always mean it’s better but you at least can control most of the narrative

I am not a globalist nor do I try and buy imports. I will pay more for American made products. I believe Unions had their times, but they are the ones that have driven the prices of goods to where American manufacturing went out of country. I have worked in many American factories and have been laid off due to off shoring. I have never been union. American union workers were given GM during the 2008 recession. They were the reason for Japanese cars coming to and taking over the industry during the 70's and 80's. Yes, automakers were part of the reason as well. There are always two sides to economics, supply and demand. I don't go to Walmart either. I look for American made first, Japan next, Mexico, and so on. I will take any product made elsewhere over Chinese made. Your comment on shaky ground is a false narrative. We have been on shaky ground before. I am not going to convince you to my side nor will you convince me to come to your side. Debate is good as longer as there is willingness to listen and learn from both sides.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

You kind of do not understand the student loan debt issue. First, the government isn't paying off anything. If a student took out $100,000 in loans that student has paid that $100,000 back.... it's the extra interest is occurred after 10 years of payment on a federal loan that the federal government is forgiving. Again it does not cost in the US government one penny.

I'm afraid that's not an accurate statement.

The USA operates on a Deficit Budget, which means every dollar it spends, has interest attached to it (it cost money to borrow money).

A Student Loan is not much different than a Mortgage Loan. You borrow the "principal" (which has already been borrowed by your lender). You pay back the Principal & the Interest, over 30 years ... just like a student loan.

There is no such thing as "extra interest".

The US Government BORROWED the money they gave out for student loans and has been paying interest on that money, since the student borrowed it from them. "Forgiving Loans/Interest" cost a fortune.

If you have any doubt, call your bank and ask them if they'll "forgive" the interest on your home mortgage. Let me know how you make out.

[Bealman]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

You kind of do not understand the student loan debt issue. First, the government isn't paying off anything. If a student took out $100,000 in loans that student has paid that $100,000 back.... it's the extra interest is occurred after 10 years of payment on a federal loan that the federal government is forgiving. Again it does not cost in the US government one penny.

You kind of don't understand payment by the Government of the interest. It is not going to be written off. Too many places will go out of business, this Government will pay the interest. It will cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars to fix the issue. Same thing happened with mortgage industry. Government is not a good business person.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by Bealman

I am not a globalist nor do I try and buy imports. I will pay more for American made products. I believe Unions had their times, but they are the ones that have driven the prices of goods to where American manufacturing went out of country. I have worked in many American factories and have been laid off due to off shoring. I have never been union. American union workers were given GM during the 2008 recession. They were the reason for Japanese cars coming to and taking over the industry during the 70's and 80's. Yes, automakers were part of the reason as well. There are always two sides to economics, supply and demand. I don't go to Walmart either. I look for American made first, Japan next, Mexico, and so on. I will take any product made elsewhere over Chinese made. Your comment on shaky ground is a false narrative. We have been on shaky ground before. I am not going to convince you to my side nor will you convince me to come to your side. Debate is good as longer as there is willingness to listen and learn from both sides.

It’s a fair rebuttal. I actually like your Top 3 for similar....lesser evil mindset

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I'm afraid that's not an accurate statement.

The USA operates on a Deficit Budget, which means every dollar it spends, has interest attached to it (it cost money to borrow money).

A Student Loan is not much different than a Mortgage Loan. You borrow the "principal" (which has already been borrowed by your lender). You pay back the Principal & the Interest, over 30 years ... just like a student loan.

There is no such thing as "extra interest".

The US Government BORROWED the money they gave out for student loans and has been paying interest on that money, since the student borrowed it from them. "Forgiving Loans/Interest" cost a fortune.

If you have any doubt, call your bank and ask them if they'll "forgive" the interest on your home mortgage. Let me know how you make out.

I am sorry you do not understand how this program works. Your home mortgage comparison is apples to oranges. "not much different" as you put it IS different. A bank is a for profit entity.
1. Not every student loan qualifies. 2. the student loan has to have a minimum of 20 years payback history. 3. 100% of the principal must have been repaid. 4. The Government BORROWS the money at a lower rate than it charged for the loan. Translation: the government made money on the loan (Profit). In these cases...20 years of profits! 5. The government is only forgiving future profit from the future interest.

[Bealman]

Boston shipper: All good! I love debate! Just not arguing. Those days of reasonable debate are dwindling, unfortunately. Have a great day!

[ithos]

Originally Posted by Caymus

Ford is losing money on EV's. Are they dumping?

They could if they made them with Chinese parts and produced them in Mexico(giant sucking sound). I am not sure what the tariffs would be if they were built in China.

PEROT GIANT SUCKING SOUND
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LvZAZ-HV4

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by ithos

They could if they made them with Chinese parts and produced them in Mexico(giant sucking sound). I am not sure what the tariffs would be if they were built in China.

PEROT GIANT SUCKING SOUND
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LvZAZ-HV4

Love H. Ross Perot references! My favorite (arguable on who the intended recipient was...) “You couldn’t work the overnight shift at a Dairy Queen”! Obviously in his endearing Texas accent!

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

I am sorry you do not understand how this program works. Your home mortgage comparison is apples to oranges. "not much different" as you put it IS different. A bank is a for profit entity.
1. Not every student loan qualifies. 2. the student loan has to have a minimum of 20 years payback history. 3. 100% of the principal must have been repaid. 4. The Government BORROWS the money at a lower rate than it charged for the loan. Translation: the government made money on the loan (Profit). In these cases...20 years of profits! 5. The government is only forgiving future profit from the future interest.

Student Loan Forgiveness will cost the USA $400 BILLION over 30 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Biden's student loan forgiveness plan will cost $400 billion, budget office says : NPR

Not FOX news. Not CSPAN.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

It’s a good first step, but it would be way better if ALL EV tax subsidies were eliminated. If EV’s can sell solely based on their stand alone economics, then they have a useful place in the marketplace. Forcing sals based on taxpayer subsidies and government mandates creates inefficiencies and diverts important private research and development dollars away from potentially better technology alternatives. And why should taxpayers that prioritize vehicle range and performance (towing capacity, 4WD, ground clearance, etc…) have to subsidize the EV crowd?

Actually the reason is .....so that the air we ALL breathe is cleaner. And the US government likes to help out early producers of equipment that they believe is going to be the US FUTURE. Just one tiny ADVANTAGE of EVs over ICE vehicles is the lower center of gravity that allows EVs to BRAKE faster. The US government is ACTUALLY pointing people in the direction of safety and fewer accidents. I have to applaud them for THAT.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

We, the taxpayers, shouldn't be paying people to buy a certain car. We also shouldn't be paying off student loan debt.

I disagree with both.

[Greatlawn]

If China could export its high quality low cost EVs to the US it would speed adoption of EVs and reduce prices for consumers and taxpayers. Now that’s capitalism?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by rsmurano

We should not give out $7500 tax credits to any EV owner. This is a rip off. We also subsidize EV owners in road maintenance since these moneys come from tax on gas. Then we probably subsidize superfund toxic landfills to discard these EV toxic batteries when they need them 8-10 years down the road. We also pay for building the EV charging infrastructure. I don’t want my tax dollars going for this, have every EV owner subsidize this, I don’t want them and I will never need them, so I shouldn’t pay for them.
All EV owners need to pay their fair share of road maintenance, and the costs of the new charging stations across the country. It costs way more for an EV, and with these extra costs, nobody would look at buying an EV.

Older people like in The Village should be aware that allergies and lung diseases are intensified by bad air. ICE engine vehicles and golf carts product BAD air and Electric vehicles do NOT. If bad health could be QUANTIFIABLE then people could see the problems of ICE vehicles. We ALL want more health and longer life, but NOT everyone sees the connection negatively for ICE vehicles.
.....There actually may be scientific studies that show longer life with the better air from E-vehicles. I am sure that there are studies about people living near factory smokestacks living shorter lives.