I'm not suggesting that we "eliminate" a tool to commit violence. I'm saying provide better checks and balances, and accountability for both the buyer and the seller, and make it a NATIONAL regulation, not a state-wide regulation. There is nothing preventing someone from going to any state that allows them to legally buy a gun, and legally buying one. And then, once that person has possession of that gun, bringing it back to their state, where state regulations prohibit them from buying it (because licensing, conceal carry, mental illness checks not done, no testing, whatever. WHATEVER REASON.)

If it is illegal for them to get it in the next state also, then it will be more difficult for them to get a gun. They'll still be able to get one. But it'll be harder to do. AND - just the fact that they got one at all, in ANY state, would mean they violated the law.

In some states, the regulations and restrictions are stricter than in other states. There is no consistency. That is WHY Chicago has the problems it has. Chicago is an example of a city that will always have problems. But it is AS BAD as it is, because of the ease of LEGALLY acquiring a firearm across state lines.

The regulations - whatever they are, however strict or loose, need to be nationwide.

And again - "other tools" don't exist for the express purpose of killing. The primary function of a gun is to kill. That is its #1 primary function. It has limited use in anything else other than target practice, which is what you do when you're trying to be good at killing.

Clarification for poster below:

I don’t know why you felt guilty when I made this statement, it was Midnight Cowgirl who suggested banning some guns may be the answer. To be honest, I didn’t read your post and really didn’t pay attention to your position. Carry on!

We need more lawyers suing gun manufacturers like with the tobacco companies. Them winning is a harder matter.

There are many guns that should simply be taken off the market and bought back if possible. Guns designed for the use of soldiers and really not so much for anything else.

More education about mental illness and a concentrated effort to get people to deal with it within their own families and in their communities. Same with virtual (online) and real life (person-to-person) bullying.

A lot can be done. Education and empathy for survivors/victim are key.

Do you know what one of the officials at the scene in Texas just said? Many bodies have not even been recovered from the Crime Scene. Stop trying to figure this out and wait until we clear the Walmart before trying this case in the press and coming to conclusions. I apologize, this would be one of the times where the name of the person would be helpful but I missed it.

Some of the people trying to score points off this tragedy is disgusting. Those name I know but can't say them.

He is right. The bad guys just steal them. If every law was passed so no gun would ever again be sold, and guns were taken from people, the bad guys would still have them. I am old enough to deal in reality. It wouldn't work. I do not have a gun, but I support the right to own one.

What does the possibility of me buying a gun have to do with anything I've said or have to do with your post referring back to what I've said???

There is no correlation between my comment and your diatribe referencing my post, so why did you quote me?

Nowhere in my comment did I say that any guns should be banned.

You must have me confused with someone else.

While you can probably buy the semi-automatic sidearm that the army, and other branches, uses, you can't legally buy the fully-automatic rifles that are the staple of the military.

Patrick Crucius, 21 years old, from Allen Texas. Info is sketchy but one reporter mentioned that the manifesto that they believe to be his, was anti-immigrants.

Edit:

Just found this post with his picture (please ignore any political reference)

K Shawn Gibson | Facebook

Norway had one mass shooting - in 2011 - and since then the pro-gun lobby has included just that year in their statistics to drag it above the USA.

Likewise Finland - last mass shooting was in 2008.

Switzerland - 2001.

Face up to the problem, people, don't just try to hide it with distorted statistics.

And the anti-gun lobby continues to focus on guns as the problem,
when in almost every case, mental or cultural issues have been the driver of these terrible events.
Guns are inanimate objects, they just don’t go off by themselves!

Movies, tv shows, video games all sell because of all the violence. The hero is the last one standing. It seems to be the world culture.

And another shooting in Ohio.

And you can read any forum in this country and you will find identical threads to this one and they haven't haven't changed for years. We can continue to go around this tree, and point fingers at how wrong the other side is, or we can do something about it.

Aslo, at this point I am so cynical that I believe most politicians, on both sides, love it when a shooting happens - they know it will distract everyone from what the politicians are doing, and give them some good talking points for the next election.

Assault Weapons | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Ban the sales of these kind of weapons to anyone and try to buy existing ones back.

Police and the military can get them from whatever source.

That is at least something that can be done.

And start challenging the hard line approaches taken by the NRA and their supporters. Common sense measures should be sought after and not bumper sticker platitudes.

I hate those damn assault rifles. Sure, they are not fully automatic like the military grade ones but all a person has to do is just keep squeezing the trigger. They are designed as human killing machines. Notice that many of these slaughters are done with assault type weapons? Look what happened in Las Vegas. How about the nightclub massacre in Orlando. These murdering bastards choose assault rifles because these assault rifles are great for mass murder. :mad:

You sound pretty emotional right now. So I can't correct misinformation in posts like your and others that don't know all the facts about purchasing a firearm?

You can't, so you do something else to try to keep guns out of the hands of the insane. The throw up your hands and say "what can we do" solution is clearly not working, and the problem is getting worse.

Historically, the NRA helped to create sensible gun laws that hadn't previously existed. Now, they are a powerful pro-gun lobby group that wants to eliminate those same laws that they helped to create.

Until they take ownership for their responsibility in the mess was have now, where one state can have strict laws that are bypassed simply by going across state lines, no amount of OTHER changes will make a single bit of difference.

In an emergency situation where someone's leg was shot up and sepsis has begun to climb up the artery, you don't tell the patient to wait while you spend a few days figuring out why he got shot. You address the sepsis immediately and if necessary - remove the leg.

Our country is experiencing sepsis, and you all want to address the cause of the sepsis. That's great. We really SHOULD address the cause of the sepsis. But first, we need to stop the sepsis. That sepsis is semi-automatic weapons, and inconsistent gun laws between the states.

Another analogy: someone driving a car has a heart attack. You don't keep driving while you figure out why he had a heart attack. You pull over and deal with the heart attack. Mass shootings = man driving a car while having a heart attack.

Semantics maybe but “taking guns off the street” to me equals banning. I didn’t say if it was right or wrong, just that the problems are stemming from mental illness.

[QUOTE=Jazuela;166996

Until they take ownership for their responsibility in the mess was have now, where one state can have strict laws that are bypassed simply by going across state lines, no amount of OTHER changes will make a single bit of difference.
..[/QUOTE]

Do you even read the links posted?
Steve

If you watch Live P.D. you can quickly see that ANYONE can get a gun illegally. AND ANYONE can get illegal drugs. And people do not seem to be learning what is right and wrong anymore. Perhaps because someone who is not their parents are raising them from infancy. You cannot legislate morality. You cannot teach morality to a sick mind. Morality can be taught by a person bonded to a child up to the age of five. After that, it is probably not going to take.

Some people think it is wrong to teach children rules attached to religion.

I don't own a gun. I don't drink or take illegal drugs. I still get angry enough to bite or hit or harm from time to time but there is a shadowy figure in the back of my mind that won't allow it. The figure looks a lot like my mom.

Unfortunately shootings are now all too common worldwide, even in gun controlled countries. Sweden: Local Residents Tense After Shootings in Karlstad
Three men killed in gang-related shooting in southern Sweden - Reuters

This just happened in Chicago so it is not really news, just another day in the Windy City. Reports: 7 People Shot, Injured Near Chicago Playground

To all the writers so far - Thanks for this reasonable, rational, 7 pages so far, discussion of this horrible topic. As I read page after page, I was fearing the moderator would need to end the discussion but there was no need for that.

The back & forth comments, your reasonableness, the links for validation, your unique interpretations of law, ability to keep away from politics, and ability to stay on topic have made my Sunday morning reading very worthwhile. Again, thanks for this discussion.

What I learned & believe - laws alone cannot be the solution since the problem extends beyond the laws. The solution is a mix of law and somewhere in the moral/spiritual/mental health matrix.

Truth, you can not legislate morality, and both parties need to learn that.

The only thing I would change in your comment is "Some people think it is wrong to teach kids rules". Period.

I don't own a "gun" (I have a air rifle for vermin control), I drink may 1 or 2 small glasses a wine per month, I don't take illegal drugs - I don't feel free room and board for the rest of my life courtesy of the state worth the brief high.

I believe laws do not solve problems at all, people speed, people run stop signs, people use drugs, people kill people...

I don't know what the solution is, but penalties (laws) do not deter crime the simply punish it.

Have you heard of the Gun Control Act of 1968. This federal law established a NATIONWIDE set of regulations that regulate the sale, possession, and transportation of firearms for all states and territories.
What do you mean about accountability for buyer and seller? If a gun dealer sells a firearm to a prohibited individual he has broken the law. If a prohibited person obtains a firearm he has committed a felony. News flash, criminals don't obey the law.
States can and do have laws in addition to what the federal government has laid down. As I pointed out in another post Florida has a 3 day waiting period before you can take possession of a firearm after successfully completing a background check.
Do you read my posts? I stated earlier that a person cannot go into another state and purchase a handgun and walk out the door with it. The gun must be transferred to a licensed gun dealer in the purchasers home state where the individual must pass a background check before taking possession of the gun. If the gun is prohibited in the purchasers home state or if the individual cannot legally own the firearm, he/she will not get it from the gun dealer. A private individual cannot sell an out of state resident a handgun. It must be transferred to a licensed dealer in the purchasers home state just as a gun dealer must do. Long guns are treated a bit differently and can be purchased out of state but if the home state of the purchaser prohibits that firearm the out of state dealer cannot sell the rifle to him. Even if an out of state purchaser is able to obtain a rifle that is banned in his home state he is still violating the law for possessing it.
Were cars designed for drunk drivers to operate? How about axes, they were a weapon of war but are also used to cut down trees. Knives were and still are weapons of war in addition to being used in the kitchen. Clubs were definitely used first as weapons but we don't regulate baseball bats do we. The fact that guns were originally designed as weapons mean nothing. My point which you don't seem to accept is that nearly any item can be used as a weapon to injure or kill another person. In the absence of a firearm a determined individual will find another tool to use to commit the crime. Yes there would be fewer gun homicides but there would be more by other means.
I take great offense to your statement and take it as insult that if a person uses a gun in target practice it is only to enable them to be more effective in killing. You don't know me. I have never killed anyone in my life, I've never threatened anyone with a gun either. I have no desire or daydreams of killing someone. I am just as sickened by the senseless killings going on in this country as anyone else. There are millions of gun owners in this country who think just like me about the violence.

Well said. Thank you. There have been many links posted that obviously have not been read.
Steve

Much has been said about the ease of buying/getting a gun.

That is not the reason for gun violence here in the USA.

What always seems to be glossed over is that we have allowed our culture to condone/accept violence. As was stated in an earlier post the movies, video games, television and much entertainment is violence based or violence driven.

Once upon a time there were ratings that some of us used to manage what our kids watched on tv or at the movies. In our house if it was R rated....no if and or buts the kids did not get to see it. Nor was anybody else allowed to watch it while under age children in the room.

Today kids grow up with a game boy or game video or television as their baby sitter. These kids get a steady diet of violence in all shapes and forms....day after day and year after year. The emotional response to murder, maiming and mayhem has become non existent.

Add to that our increasing tolerance for wrong doing and selective law enforcement all provide a breeding culture for violence and wrong doing.

The statistics are higher for mortality on using cell phones while driving. Yet there is no clamoring of the masses to ELIMINATE or control the problem. Why do we hear about MADD but nothing about mothers against cell phones? Why? Because the majority have them and they will not allow or create and disturbance to their addiction. Hence the death by auto-cell phone continues.

Non gun deaths i.e. cell phones....note the silence.
Gun deaths? Note the lack of addressing the real issue.

How many gun owners and or guns owned in the USA used every single day without incident. Millions upon millions. What gets the press and political agenda attention? Not the 99.8% responsible gun ownership and use!!!!!!!

Re-iterating my position once again.

It ain't the gun!!!!

One thing that really hasn't been mentioned is Social Media. There has been a definite increase in mass shootings since the advent of Social Media.

The news media presents almost nothing but divisive issues anymore. "If it bleeds it leads".. Amazing how this country is split almost down the middle on social issues.

Then add in forums like this. Well maybe not exactly like this since this forum is multifaceted with the discussion of many issues. But look at forums that are dedicated to certain topics. Those forums present one side of an issue. You get some impressionable kid and egg him on, instill hate and violence and you have a recipe for disaster. Look how many kids spend their days online. For some it is their only social interaction.

This problem is way bigger than firearms. Bullying, mental health, media input, self biases.. You name it, they can all contribute. But until we find the root cause this will continue to happen.

Yes agree very well said. It’s not the gun but the nut job behind it. Your 100% correct on your gun laws also. People say the Military style weapons are the problem I could buy a 50 or 100 round drum for a pistol and fire just as many or more rounds then the military style weapons, plant a bomb in my car a mailbox a storm drain etc. I don’t and will not but that’s what could happen. It’s the nut job that does the killing not the device he or she uses. You can’t outlaw any everything that could be used as a weapon impossible. Sorry this happened yet again prayers to family and friends of those involved. Those who carry legally hope to never need it but if they do let’s hope it stops the attacker.

True, this is also associated with the growth of access/use of the internet, not just social media.

"Back in the day" News on radio and TV were not profit centers. One day the bean counters figured out they could monetize news and the downward spiral began and it was "news" only if it could be spun to make a buck.

Kids in general are peer group driven. The bully phenomena pre-dates the internet, and was/is somewhat driven by the praise they get from "peers" for a good "burn". On the internet anyone can be a bully and get away with it since they are anonymous. And the "rewards" are even greater (likes, shares and subscribers).

Completely agree with you - 100%.

Most suggestions are treating the symptoms and not the problem. Not to say that while we are looking for the cause we should do nothing, but the problem(s) will not go away until we treat the root cause.

I personally think we are in a civilization wide transition period of information overload.

We, as humans are having a hard time adapting to (dealing with) all the changes. The internet is a big one - it is resulting in a zero cost (profitable?) ability to spread hate and anger, it is resulting in too much information, information overload making it hard to know who or what to believe.

There is a theory among people searching for extraterrestrial life (aliens) that while there are many inhabited planets out there most civilizations kill themselves off once they reach the level of technological advancement where they can.

We are at that level now, and it does feel sometimes like we are not going to get through this phase of the "industrial" revolution.

I certainly hear you or read you loud and clear.

What can be done? How can it be done? Asylums? Who will ascertain who is the potentially dangerous criminally insane? A very difficult situation.

Remove guns and weapons from all homes? Do not sell new ones? That means that people with a moral compass will give up their weapons and not buy new ones.

Pass a law about AK47s? Most people would agree with that, but hard liners of the second amendment would not.

We have tried to work hard and save and buy homes in safe parts of the world. Never felt the need to be armed, but that is changing for the older people who do not hit hard, run fast and even get out of chairs quickly.

This is very complex. This is far more than political. Thou shalt not kill, unless someone is trying to badly harm you or your family. My mother said that and I believe it. My mother would not recognize THIS world.

Better be careful....discussing each other instead of the thread topic will get the thread closed!!

Yes, a nut job.
But who is giving these white nationalist/supremacist the racist fodder?

Police say a document they believe was written by the 21-year-old white male suspect has a "nexus to a potential hate crime."
The four-page document posted online espouses white nationalist and racist views. It rails against immigrants and Hispanics, blaming immigrants and first-generation Americans for taking away jobs and for the blending of cultures in the US.

Some Changes MUST Be Made!
 

What can be done and how to do it? As long as no one becomes proactive with sound doable ideas, there will never be any change.
An asylum? Ridiculous! No one has ever brought that up as a deterrent. Besides, an asylum would be "after-the-fact" and solves nothing.

Remove guns from homes and not sell new ones? That's absurd and that will NEVER happen. As with many things, laws have been adjusted to keep up with changes. The same should apply to this amendment. When the Second Amendment was written, there was no such thing as an AK anything. These weapons were not designed for ownership by the public-at-large. The military? Yes! Law enforcement? Yes! And probably some other venues that aren't coming to mind right now.

Work hard to buy a home in a safe place? That's laughable because there is no such thing. A mass murderer is not targeting older people. No one is immune from being killed when such a person is on the warpath.

So what is the beginning? Universal laws, not just state-by-state. Stringent background checks to include things as innocuous-sounding as Facebook, Twitter, etc. Put a tax on weapons to cover the cost of more intricate methods of checking someone out. Interview neighbors of the applicant. Have a longer waiting period to gain ownership. Have the government buy back automatic weapons.

I'm not saying that these things should be done or would work. But it could be a possible beginning. A change will take a long time -- a very long time to begin working. But we are at the point in this country where we need to start with some changes somewhere.

Yes, the situation is far more than political. Unfortunately, nothing has changed because it is political. Four mass murders in different parts of the country all within one week's time? We need to stop talking about it and do something. Otherwise, nothing will change.

Mental illness may be a part of all these mass murders, but I believe it's only a small part of it.

What I do believe is the underlying cause is based on prejudice, ignorance and pure, unadulterated hate. These things are not a mental illness. They are probably an environmental and learned behavior.

And since a cure for that is pretty remote, I believe we have to rely on changes in some laws.

I could be wrong but I think the majority of these mass murderers are not insane. They are full of hate and anger.

Where does this hate and anger come from? This beautiful, abundant country, in the Old Testament it’d be probably referred to as another land of milk and honey.

I am trying to understand. I see the beauty where is the ugliness? To me it seems artificial and invented.