:agree: I don't agree that gun control is the solution.

Hate and anger. Close to the truth.

I was just told my views, two posts up were in exact words;

Ridiculous

Absurd

Laughable

Solves nothing.

Those are very harsh words to say the least and are only one person's opinion. However if someone had suffered a personal loss, a death, or had been very ill, or just been through any kind of stressful period in their lives, those harsh and critical words might be enough to cause them to be very hurt and angry or terribly depressed. I believe those very words could have been changed to less demeaning ones...easily.

Or one could simply have remained silent. All of this are just opinions and we all think we are right.

Some, even if they are right, know how to make people angry and feel bad.

I guess I am thinking, when one of us gets hurt, we are all hurting. Just look at us in TOTV how concerned we are about these shootings.

Here is a copy of the alleged Manifesto. I think he is very wrong, but I don't see any evidence that either party gave this obviously disoriented and mentally ill person the impetus to think this way.

El Paso Walmart Shooter Patrick Crusius Full Manifesto | TheCount.com

When we are confused and saddened some of us want to blame someone or something. It may be many someones or somethings. There is nothing wrong with being white, we had no choice in the matter and most of us love our country above all others. Dismissive name calling is not helpful in this or most situations. He is probably screwed up for a lot of reasons. His mother died when he was seventeen. Some people cannot handle overwhelming grief if they have a weakened mental state. But,I am angry with him. I believe most humans know it is wrong to kill other humans unless they are attacking us or our family.

You are a wise person, and considering I am a liberal I find it very distressing that I can't find anything to disagree with you on! :bigbow:

I don't know.

There's going to be a lot more coming out about both of these tragedies. Everyone really needs to refrain from rash judgments about the "who", what and why until then.Take a breath..jeez...the bodies are barely cold for Christ's sake!
The one thing that we all know is they were both wackos...period!
Steve

I have never owned a gun. I don't plan on owning one in the future. I'm not against gun ownership, but I think that there needs to be some kind of change made (way beyond me to know exactly what change).

One thing I can see reading through all the posts - There is a lot of disagreement and misunderstanding of exactly what the law is concerning gun purchase and carry.

I guess a start would be to pass some laws concerning the sale of guns!

Those are harsh words.

In 2011 we decided to spend $3 Trillion because 1300 people were killed in NY. How many more people have to die before we demand that $3 trillion dollars be allocated to stopping mass murders in the US?

Wake up! Have you heard about the assault weapons available to
buy by any Tom, Dick or Harry ! Pass some laws that ban the sale of these types of weapons, that would be a start. Alas too many of our members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.

Well let's just get rid of those roundabouts, stop signs, traffic lights. Screw burglary laws. Ditch all drug laws. Open season on your neighbor if he mows his lawn too early for your taste. I mean hey - if he was going to shoot you, he wouldn't let a silly thing like a law stop him anyway, so why bother having a law saying he isn't allowed, right?

The color of your post makes it almost illegible to read in the original post. You may want to change that.

There are already federal laws concerning the sale, possession and transportation of guns. Convicted felons cannot buy, own or possess a firearm, period. People adjudicated as being too mentally ill to possess firearms are prohibited also as is the felon. You must undergo and pass a background check before you can purchase one. What further restrictions do you think will correct the problem?

Nobody reads links or does their own research on the gun laws that are already on the books. They just believe what they are being fed. It's a hopeless "discussion".
Steve

Re-read the portion of my post you quoted. No where did I imply or infer that there should be no laws. Laws don't on their own stop criminal activity. Laws exist as a means for the government to charge, prosecute and imprison the individual that breaks the law. I keep hearing the cry for more laws, what law will prevent these incidents that isn't already on the books?

Tell me the difference between these two rifles.. Which one is an "Assault Weapon"? One is a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, the other an AR-15.

How many people remember the Boston marathon bombing back in 2013? Two nut cases filled home kitchen pressure cookers with black powder taken from fireworks and made a couple bombs that killed, injured and maimed a number of people.

In 1995 Timothy McVeigh used a truck loaded with a fertilizer/diesel fuel mixture bomb that killed 168 people, which included children, and injured over 680 others.

In June 2001 in Japan, a school janitor/maintenance man entered a school and used a knife to kill 8 children and seriously wound 13 more including 2 teachers.

There have been so many bombing incidents in the middle east with hundreds killed and many more injured/maimed and not a gun was used.

In May this year a man in Tokyo, Japan killed one school girl and an adult and injured at least 17 others at a bus stop using a knife.

In 2018 in the UK they experienced the highest number of knife assaults since they began keeping records. In 2018 in England and Wales there were 732 homicides. Children as young as 9 are carrying knives out of fear of being attacked. Don't ask for links as I'm not computer savvy enough to get them to work, google is your friend.

What is the point of this information? Some of these places have such strict gun control laws that it is nearly impossible to own one, except for the middle east. In the absence of guns other, means are used and return just as horrific a body count as the mass shootings in the news. How many times do I have to say WE HAVE A VIOLENCE PROBLEM in this country and in many others. Passing more laws that will be ignored by the criminal to prohibit one homicide tool will just increase the death count by another tool. Strict gun laws in other countries isn't stopping the violence. Why is there no effort to discover why there is so much violent behavior and attitude? It's easier to pass a law that won't work and let so many have their emotional "gotta do something now" fix and go on with their lives thinking it will get better. Too many people don't want an honest discussion on violence as it might cause them to have to re-think some of their beliefs.

What is the difference? You are using a comparison that is not realistic. Like so many gun owners and protectionists of the 2nd amendent , you carry it to the extreme. Reasonable people do NOT want to take all guns away. Just put restrictions on the way guns are sold and the types of guns that can be purchased. Background checks, waiting periods, types of guns sold is not a ban on all weapons. You have been tricked, scared and intimidated by the false rhetoric surrounding this issue.

The question not many are interested in as it does not have an agenda fixed to it....

Exactly.

I believe you’re working on the wrong problem. It’s like locks on doors, they only keep the honest people honest.

If you ban those guns, only the mentally unstable will have them. I’m sure you’re cognizant of how successful the war on drugs hasn’t been and prohibition was never accomplished.

There will always be that element willing to pedal illegal weapons and I don’t want to see the good guys unarmed. For the record, I do not own a weapon.

Mental instability is at the root of these mass murders but our government has failed to address that issue. And everyone wants what seems to be the easiest answer but it’s no answer, IMHO.

Nicely put. Do something to stop these mass shootings. Whatever works that is within the confines of the US Constitution as seen by reasonable people. Fanatics are usually not at all reasonable.

These shootings hit home for me as my Villages' neighbor's grand daughter lost her life at the Parkland shooting. She was 14. They moved to be closer to their surviving grandkids and their cousins. But were very good neighbors from about 2006 to 2018.

So this can happen in the Villages so to speak.

And mental illness is a very difficult subject as the science of psychiatry is still in its infancy and is not very sophisticated.

That is why people that know nothing about guns shouldn't give opinions about gun types. Those two rifles I pictured are functionally almost identical. They are both magazine fed semi automatic rifles chambered in .223. Each pull of the trigger sends a round down range. The term "Assault Weapon" is the most overused/abused buzz word out there.

Because one looks like a Military M4 people think it's more deadly than a ranch rifle.

And even if you do get rid of "Assault Rifles" what about pistols? You can get 30 round magazines for most semi automatic pistols. So now we get rid of "Assault Rifles" and pistols?

Well, I guess if only one potential shooter was unable to acquire the weapon and so that one did not kill 26 people that would be worth something to those 26 people's family, children and friends.

And to look at it another way, how many AK47s or AR15s in the hands of good gun owners have been used to prevent or end actual mass shootings? Since your reference of only mentally unstable (or criminals) would have access to them would imply that others having access in some way would or does help prevent these mass shootings.

That is not entirely true. You only have to undergo and pass a background check to buy from a licensed dealer. You do NOT have to undergo a background check for a private sale transaction. Gun show buyers do NOT have to undergo background checks, except in states where the STATE has required it.

Think about the carnage if the mentally ill or criminals knew the bulk of the population was unarmed with weapons like theirs. You think that scenerio would make no difference? I couldn’t disagree more.

Not going to happen.

These shooters are rarely mentally ill. They are domestic terrorists who know full well what they are doing.

And they go to places that they can expect have security with weapons that can stop them as soon as they are seen by security.

The point is how much damage can be done by guns designed for the military even if arms manufacturers have altered them for profit and sold them to the public. You reduce the number of guns being sold you at least get these weapons out of some hands. It is not a cure all. But it is something.

Taming the out-of- control gun culture is critical.

Not sure if gun control would make much difference, a child can make a Molotov cocktail.

I totally disagree. Mental illness is a wide spectrum and a normal person does not dream of executing large groups of people. Did you read this executioner’s manifesto? Deviousness is part of the illness. I don’t want the upper edge with the wrong group of people.

Well, we can easily prove if gun control has or has not worked, we can not prove what "might happen".

Once the government unarms it’s citizens there is no going back.

Congratulations, you have done some research. Yes, I can sell one of my guns to a private individual without a background check. But it is against the law for a prohibited person to buy that gun from me so there is a law that make its illegal. You said that there needs to be laws that prevent the wrong people from obtaining a gun and there already is one on the books. You did state that laws prevent crime.
Now as to gun show sales. The majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed firearms dealers and must conduct a background check on all buyers. Yes there are a few private sellers at gun shows that sell a gun or two. A lot of gun shows have an individual there that will do background checks for private sellers and there are some shows that require it. Do some more research on where criminals obtain guns. Very few get them at gun shows or from private sellers. The majority get them from straw purchasers. A straw purchaser is a person who is not prohibited from buying and possessing a firearm that buys a gun in their name for a person prohibited from possessing a gun. It is illegal to do a straw purchase, another law that is on the books to control guns. Prosecutors rarely prosecute a straw purchaser. No prosecution, no deterrent to commit the crime. To a lesser degree criminals obtain stolen guns. In Tennessee a few years back there was a rash of gun store burglaries in Nashville and surrounding communities resulting quite a number of stolen guns. Burglary is illegal.

That is very true, and can be proven by looking at history where it has happened. So we agree with that statement.

Now, could you point out how it is relevant on this thread? Has anyone proposed disarming "it's citizens"?

I understand the fear of a slippery slope, and agree it can not be allowed. But that is a far cry from the other slippery slope of not allowing any controls or restrictions. Would you agree that Nuclear weapons should not be permitted to be owned by citizens? Why not? After all Nuclear Weapons don't kill people, people kill people.

Many years ago my father related a story to me about a guy that got into a fight in a bar and came out on the losing end. He walked down the street, purchased a gas can and filled it at a gas station. He took the gas can and made a Molotov cocktail out of it and rolled through the door into the bar. Luckily he didn't kill anyone but several were burned and it destroyed the bar.

Taming the out of control violent culture is critical. Guns have been a part of this country since even before its inception. The AR-15 came out in the 60's. So you can't blame the problem on that.

Mass shootings are a current trend. Social media is a current trend. Shutting down mental health facilities is a (relatively) current trend. The AR-15 style rifle is not a current trend.

That's how we used to get rid of wasp nests.. :jester:

I am also sure you know the generally accepted first mass shooting was in 1963 (or 1964 - not sure now) with a student in a tower at a Texas college/university, using a rifle. It is still ranked around 11th as most deadly mass shooting. So, we could say the modern mass shooting "thing" started there.