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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)
-   -   Another mass shooting (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/another-mass-shooting-296194/)

Taltarzac725 08-05-2019 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1670387)
And you don’t think hate of that magnitude isn’t mental illness?
No it is not. Unless you want to say the whole world went crazy in WWI and WWII.

Post traumatic stress syndrome is a mental illness. I have met many people suffering from it. And many of the victims/survivors of these El Paso and Dayton shootings will now have it.

My former Villages' neighbor's son suffers from it because of the murder of his niece in the Parkland shooting. He is so scared by these recent shootings he does not want to leave his house.

Lottoguy 08-05-2019 08:46 AM
You know your argument on guns is no good when you compare cars killing people to guns killing people. Laughable!

Lottoguy 08-05-2019 08:48 AM
I think being able to buy a 100 round magazine lawfully is more the reason then church's not being filled.

Taltarzac725 08-05-2019 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottoguy (Post 1670399)
You know your argument on guns is no good when you compare cars killing people to guns killing people. Laughable!
It is laughable that we cannot do something about men full of hatred who use assault style weapons to terrorize their fellow Americans.

Aces4 08-05-2019 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1670391)
No it is not. Unless you want to say the whole world went crazy in WWI and WWII.

Post traumatic stress syndrome is a mental illness. I have met many people suffering from it. And many of the victims/survivors of these El Paso and Dayton shootings will now have it.
Hilter was the delusional, mentally unstable person with the guns. Thank heavens the rest of the world had weapons to hold him at bay and I don’t know how defending one’s country would ever be equated with “crazy”.

And that is the point with PTSD, when normal, healthy people are put in the stressful position of shooting others they suffer mental breakdowns because killing other humans isn’t normal for them.

Taltarzac725 08-05-2019 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1670404)
It is laughable that we cannot do something about men full of hatred who use assault style weapons to terrorize their fellow Americans.
Take their tools away is the most logical.

Aces4 08-05-2019 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottoguy (Post 1670399)
You know your argument on guns is no good when you compare cars killing people to guns killing people. Laughable!
We’re comparing risks and it is even funnier that it isn’t considered an important factor when you think of the numbers of guns in the states and cars in the states and the death rates. Automobile deaths would be lowered dramatically if certain laws were changed but you wouldn’t want anyone to take your car away and leave you with a smart car for your lifetime.

Read Bill from the UK’s statement, you can’t stop those with intent.

Aces4 08-05-2019 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1670406)
Take their tools away is the most logical.
Monitor mental illness is better, new tools can be found anywhere.

manaboutown 08-05-2019 09:09 AM
That the Ohio shooter was seriously mentally disturbed is clear from his now canceled Twitter account. Here are some screenshots from it. Twitter Suspends Account Allegedly Linked to Ohio Shooter | Breitbart

According to his classmates he also kept "Hit" and "Rape" lists. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...tc8lyV6OuFDFYY

JackRussell 08-05-2019 10:20 AM
You're right. Our kids and grandkids should be taught how to use and carry a gun so they won't become victims. Almost all mass shootings occur in Gun Free Zones.

graciegirl 08-05-2019 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1670406)
Take their tools away is the most logical.
Yes it is. But it is also highly unrealistic. That is locking the barn after the horses are out.

Barefoot 08-05-2019 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1670081)
I guess I am thinking, when one of us gets hurt, we are all hurting.
Just look at us in TOTV how concerned we are about these shootings.
Velvet, very true.

fw102807 08-05-2019 10:34 AM
People have been killing each other since the beginning of time. They just didn’t hear about it 5 seconds after it happened and have it regurgitated for days after.

Barefoot 08-05-2019 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1670341)
The 9/11 terrorists were not mentally ill nor the Boston Marathon bombers. I have not seen any signs of mental illness in the Dayton nor El Paso mass murderers.
I don't agree. :ohdear: I think that all terrorists are demented and mentally ill.
I think anyone who shoots people in cold blood for whatever reason is mentally ill.

Barefoot 08-05-2019 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fw102807 (Post 1670449)
People have been killing each other since the beginning of time. They just didn’t hear about it 5 seconds after it happened and have it regurgitated for days after.
"Fame" is probably part of their sick motivation for mass shootings.

fw102807 08-05-2019 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1670459)
"Fame" is probably part of their sick motivation for mass shootings.
Exactly. I would like to think that gun control would solve the problem but people who are determined to kill are going to find a way to do it.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-05-2019 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1670387)
And you think hate of that magnitude isn’t mental illness?
No, it's not. And the fact that you don't understand this is disheartening. Americans who committed atrocities on civilians in Vietnam were driven by hate, and not mentally ill - yet. When they came back, that's another story.

People who were led into following the Nazi regime, believing in the dogma, and committing atrocities in the name of hatred of "other" during WWII - were not mentally ill.

People who are committing atrocities now in the name of hatred of "other" are not mentally ill. Only 22% of mass shootings in the USA were committed by the mentally ill. The other 78% were NOT mentally ill. They acted out of hate and fear of "other." Those acts were driven by people of influence, who led them to the hatred and fear with words, actions, or a combination of both.

Sharonenright 08-05-2019 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1669792)
Anyone know of even conversation taking place about a uniquely American situation ?

Anyone know of any legislation being discussed ?
The legislative solution will ge the same as always: “thoughts and prayers”.
The legislators’ only concern is for the big donors.

graciegirl 08-05-2019 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharonenright (Post 1670473)
The legislative solution will ge the same as always: “thoughts and prayers”.
The legislators’ only concern is for the big donors.
Some of them. But some are just as concerned as you and I. Sometimes ALL that can be said are words of sympathy. ALL of us would like to solve these problems and each believes we have the answer. Starting new arguments and saying demeaning things to others especially things not completely accurate only relieves our own emotional "steam" for a moment. We are the wise, older ones. Many of us are not past the "define the problem" and "gather facts on the problem" part of problem solving and some people will never, ever accept that some problems can never be solved completly because of the human factor.

GrumpyOldMan 08-05-2019 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1670478)
Starting new arguments and saying demeaning things to others especially things not completely accurate only relieves our own emotional "steam" for a moment.
FINALLY, something I can disagree with you on. :)

I find "venting" no longer releases the steam, it seems to have the opposite effect and gets me and my wife more upset.

We are trying hard to avoid venting - it seems to be working. The more we try to listen to the other side and find things we can agree with, the better we feel after the conversation.

Polar Bear 08-05-2019 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1670481)
...We are trying hard to avoid venting - it seems to be working. The more we try to listen to the other side and find things we can agree with, the better we feel after the conversation.
Wise words, you GrumpyOldMan. :)

Velvet 08-05-2019 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1670471)
No, it's not. And the fact that you don't understand this is disheartening. Americans who committed atrocities on civilians in Vietnam were driven by hate, and not mentally ill - yet. When they came back, that's another story.

People who were led into following the Nazi regime, believing in the dogma, and committing atrocities in the name of hatred of "other" during WWII - were not mentally ill.

People who are committing atrocities now in the name of hatred of "other" are not mentally ill. Only 22% of mass shootings in the USA were committed by the mentally ill. The other 78% were NOT mentally ill. They acted out of hate and fear of "other." Those acts were driven by people of influence, who led them to the hatred and fear with words, actions, or a combination of both.
I agree especially about the Nazis, there is a difference between mentally ill and just plain evil, for me.

Midnight Cowgirl 08-05-2019 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1670384)
What is it with guns?

Why do people love these so much?

You only need a gun for home protection and maybe some for hunting.

Sorry, guys, but I do believe in many cases owning a gun is a macho thing.

Yes, I would be willing to make book that that is a fact in a number of cases.

And yeah . . . . . I can't wait to hear the responses to this post! :a040:

Aces4 08-05-2019 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1670471)
No, it's not. And the fact that you don't understand this is disheartening. Americans who committed atrocities on civilians in Vietnam were driven by hate, and not mentally ill - yet. When they came back, that's another story.

People who were led into following the Nazi regime, believing in the dogma, and committing atrocities in the name of hatred of "other" during WWII - were not mentally ill.

People who are committing atrocities now in the name of hatred of "other" are not mentally ill. Only 22% of mass shootings in the USA were committed by the mentally ill. The other 78% were NOT mentally ill. They acted out of hate and fear of "other." Those acts were driven by people of influence, who led them to the hatred and fear with words, actions, or a combination of both.
You will never convince me that anyone in a normal state of mind murders in cold blood. A dysfunctional brain can causes evil actions. One may hypothesize but to state a mass murderer is normal but evil is hiding the truth, IMHO.

Midnight Cowgirl 08-05-2019 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1670457)
I don't agree. :ohdear: I think that all terrorists are demented and mentally ill.
I think anyone who shoots people in cold blood for whatever reason is mentally ill.
I respectfully disagree. You weren't raised that way and the same holds true for most of us. Don't you see what hate has done in the world today?

I'd be willing to bet that these perpetrators -- these kids -- were raised by bigoted, narrow-minded parents who instilled hatred in their kids' minds. We all know this kind of mentality is environmental and starts at home. It is a learned process.

Nipper 08-05-2019 12:54 PM
Those who ignore atrocities of the past, are doomed to repeat them.

fw102807 08-05-2019 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1670503)
You will never convince me that anyone in a normal state of mind murders in cold blood. A dysfunctional brain can causes evil actions. One may hypothesize but to state a mass murderer is normal but evil is hiding the truth, IMHO.
There have been numerous studies of the brains of serial killers to see if in fact there is evidence to support that they are pre-wired to do this. While there are some areas of the brain that had common denominators for this type of behavior they found that the killers also generally suffered from some type of abuse. There is no clear cut answer.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-05-2019 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet (Post 1670488)
I agree especially about the Nazis, there is a difference between mentally ill and just plain evil, for me.
It's not evil, either. It is indoctrinated. HUGE difference. There are people who would otherwise not be committing atrocities - who are, because they have been indoctrinated. This will continue until the indoctrination stops.

OrangeBlossomBaby 08-05-2019 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fw102807 (Post 1670514)
There have been numerous studies of the brains of serial killers to see if in fact there is evidence to support that they are pre-wired to do this. While there are some areas of the brain that had common denominators for this type of behavior they found that the killers also generally suffered from some type of abuse. There is no clear cut answer.
The issue isn't about serial killers. Mass shooters who tell you exactly why they are doing it ("to stop the invasion" for example) are not serial killers.

They have been indoctrinated into believing there is an invasion, that this invasion is harming them, and that this invasion needs to be stopped.

They are not intrinsically evil people. They are people who have been duped into believing they are saving lives. And it will continue to get worse because of those who say "oh they're mentally ill" or "my right to own a gun is all-important" or "fake media" "this or that political whatever." Otherwise intelligent people choosing to ignore, or forgive, or pretend that this elephant doesn't exist.

It exists, it is ugly, it is telling otherwise mundane people that a) they need to be angry, b) it is "other's" fault, and c) if they got violent, it'd be okay.

manaboutown 08-05-2019 01:33 PM
Just a few days ago a grandmother likely stopped another one from happening. Officials say Grandmother Stopped 19-Year-Old Man From Carrying out Mass Shooting in Texas

Aces4 08-05-2019 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1670526)
The issue isn't about serial killers. Mass shooters who tell you exactly why they are doing it ("to stop the invasion" for example) are not serial killers.

They have been indoctrinated into believing there is an invasion, that this invasion is harming them, and that this invasion needs to be stopped.

They are not intrinsically evil people. They are people who have been duped into believing they are saving lives. And it will continue to get worse because of those who say "oh they're mentally ill" or "my right to own a gun is all-important" or "fake media" "this or that political whatever." Otherwise intelligent people choosing to ignore, or forgive, or pretend that this elephant doesn't exist.

It exists, it is ugly, it is telling otherwise mundane people that a) they need to be angry, b) it is "other's" fault, and c) if they got violent, it'd be okay.
If you believe your posts, you must have read the online notes the Ohio murderer left explaining why he was going to commit the heinous act. So how do we eliminate the source of his angst so he wouldn’t have those evil thoughts?

How could we have kept the shooter away from the diatribes and accusations he heard constantly even thought it was just that, diatribe. That’s the donkey in the room. Constant harrassment he witnessed must have pushed him over.

Fredster 08-05-2019 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 10 GI (Post 1670214)
I'm wide awake. The original "assault weapon" was coined by the Germans in WWII to describe the StG44 rifle. Sturmgewehr is the name given to this rifle has been roughly translated to mean assault rifle. The German word Sturm actually means storm, like bad weather. The StG 44 was an intermediate caliber select fire weapon which means it could be fired in semi-automatic or full automatic mode by a selector switch. The full automatic function is what makes it an assault rifle. In storming an enemy position the automatic mode allows a heavy amount of fire to suppress the return fire until you can close with the enemy and kill him at point blank distance. A semi-auto won't fill this job. A lot of misinformed people believe that AR in AR15 means "assault rifle". It means Armalite Rifle. Armalite is the company that built the rifle designed by Eugene Stoner, the inventor of the rifle. The military named it the M16 which is a full automatic rifle. Assault Rifle is a term used by the media to create a sinister connotation for the AR15.
Thanks for clarifying that.
It might help some commenters on this forum,
that really have very limited firearm knowledge.

fw102807 08-05-2019 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1670526)
The issue isn't about serial killers. Mass shooters who tell you exactly why they are doing it ("to stop the invasion" for example) are not serial killers.

They have been indoctrinated into believing there is an invasion, that this invasion is harming them, and that this invasion needs to be stopped.

They are not intrinsically evil people. They are people who have been duped into believing they are saving lives. And it will continue to get worse because of those who say "oh they're mentally ill" or "my right to own a gun is all-important" or "fake media" "this or that political whatever." Otherwise intelligent people choosing to ignore, or forgive, or pretend that this elephant doesn't exist.

It exists, it is ugly, it is telling otherwise mundane people that a) they need to be angry, b) it is "other's" fault, and c) if they got violent, it'd be okay.
Most people who have a "cause" protest or find some other way to draw attention to it, they do not go around killing innocent people. These people are killers.

Aces4 08-05-2019 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fw102807 (Post 1670535)
Most people who have a "cause" protest or find some other way to draw attention to it, they do not go around killing innocent people. These people are killers.
I believe psychos is the correct term.

Barefoot 08-05-2019 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl (Post 1670505)
I'd be willing to bet that these perpetrators -- these kids -- were raised by bigoted, narrow-minded parents who instilled hatred in their kids' minds. We all know this kind of mentality is environmental and starts at home. It is a learned process.
I respectfully disagree.
I think anyone who has hatred to the extent that they feel like killing people in cold blood is mentally ill.
Hate and anger, or mentally ill - it doesn't really matter.
It's a sick, evil person who thinks it's their right to kill innocent people.
It somehow makes it worse when the evil person kills children.

manaboutown 08-05-2019 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1670540)

I think anyone who has hatred to the extent that they feel like killing people in cold blood is mentally ill.
Hate and anger, or mentally ill - it doesn't really matter.
It's a sick, evil person who thinks it's their right to kill innocent people.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pinochet, Suharto, Pol Pot, Nero, the 1915 Armenian Genocide by the Turks, and a host of others from ancient to modern times come to mind.

Velvet 08-05-2019 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 1670540)
I respectfully disagree.
I think anyone who has hatred to the extent that they feel like killing people in cold blood is mentally ill.
Hate and anger, or mentally ill - it doesn't really matter.
It's a sick, evil person who thinks it's their right to kill innocent people.
It somehow makes it worse when the evil person kills children.
And their own sister as in the case of the latest shooting. I also think people can be indoctrinated... to a degree. Look at cult behavior, for example. When it is presented that the behavior is a norm, or even expected (by God etc) I find some people are more easy to lead than others.

manaboutown 08-05-2019 02:30 PM
Alleged Twitter posts by the Dayton shooter. This was his mindset. Twitter Account Allegedly Linked to Ohio Shooter Retweeted Doxxing of ICE Employees | Breitbart

Trayderjoe 08-05-2019 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1670242)
I don't believe there is one cause, but a lot of reasons. I believe the desire for peer approval, the desire to be remembered, a desire for power over people, lots of reasons - among them hate.
All excellent points.

manaboutown 08-05-2019 04:23 PM
They are/were both crazy zealots just from from opposite corners of the intersection.


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