[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The solution to the alligator "problem" is the same as the solution to the other, off-topic problems: Don't put yourself in an obviously dangerous situation. Don't stand on the tracks while a train is approaching is more than just grammatically the same as don't stand on the shoreline while an alligator is approaching.

Just curious - why do you think that disguising an accusation as a question makes a good argument?

In answer to your accusation, I don't value an alligator's life over an human life. If I was there at the time and had a weapon with me there is no question which of the two I would have used the weapon on.

But that isn't the situation now, it isn't an alligator life vs. human life situation. The question now is whether alligators in their natural habitat can coexist with humans? Do we need to kill all the alligators to make humans safe? Over the last 75 years there has been fewer than one death by alligator every three years. Of all the things out there that can kill us, alligators seem to be relatively safe. When you consider the circumstances behind many of those deaths (wading in to retrieve a disc or golf ball, standing on the shore watching the alligator approach) it seems the humans took the action to put themselves in danger - were it not for clearly poor choices the humans made, they would not have been killed.

If an animal is threatening a human then the animal should lose. If a human puts themselves into a dangerous situation then it's hard to blame the animal. Killing animals to make it impossible for humans to make bad choices is just wrong.

An alligator kills a human about once every three years. By contrast, dogs kill between 30 and 40 humans EACH AND EVERY YEAR! If you want to protect humans from animals then alligators are the wrong focus. When you argue to eradicate dogs as strongly as you argue to kill alligators THEN I will respect your position.

Dogs in The Villages are supposed to be leashed; tethered to their owner. Alligators are free to roam wherever their hearts desire.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Dogs in The Villages are supposed to be leashed; tethered to their owner. Alligators are free to roam wherever their hearts desire.

Leashed, tethered, muzzled, indoors, outdoors, in the car, very small, too nice, ..... none of that matters.

If protecting human life is the most important consideration then an animal that causes deaths at a rate 90 times what an alligator does certainly needs to be dealt with first.

No alligators have killed a person in the Villages, can the same be said for dogs, have there been zero deaths by dog bite in the Villages? (I really don't know that answer)

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

*Maybe* it was necessary to remove the one alligator who *might* now see humans as food but it certainly wasn't necessary to remove them all. (Note that they removed alligators from the entire community; there were not four alligators in one pond). The needless removal, and likely destruction, of a native animal behaving naturally is sad. I really hate the idea but maybe it is necessary to put fences around all the ponds to keep the foolish people away.

We enjoy looking for alligators in the ponds here.

Things to learn:
- There are alligators in the fresh water in Florida
- Walking your small dog at the edge of the water is dangerous
- Standing and watching an alligator swim across the pond towards you and your dog is a really bad idea

I disagree. No gator that BIG should be ALLOWED to live NEAR dense human communities. Should tigers and lions be allowed to roam free in the Villages. What about freshwater sharks? Are they OK?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Daxdog

How do think they can be removed? How do you keep them from coming back?

There are specialized wildlife people that remove LARGE, LARGE gators. It just takes a phone call. You remove the ones over 4ft from a large area and barring droughts, you have 2 years of NOT worrying about dog kills and elderly woman being HUNTED AND KILLED.
.........To all those that feel for the plight of the poor, poor Winston 19 ft gators of the world JUST IMAGINE the SHEER TERROR experienced by that poor 85 year old lady. Now imagine the staff of say the Villages calling her relatives to say SORRY RELATIVES, "We cared MORE about Winston the prehistoric human eating KILLER than your insignificant 85-year-old relative that just became GATOR breakfast."
......And that happened in daylight......GATORS are far more aggressive at night. I can't understand ANYONE that would NOT want the lakes of the Villages hunted and hunted until all GATORS over 4 ft were eliminated. You can't possibly eliminate them all.......but you damn SURE can eliminate all those over 4 ft with just a LITTLE bit of willpower. That lady was from a generation of Americans that defeated the Nazis in WW2. You mean to tell me that our current generation does NOT have the willpower to defeat and eliminate any and all over 4 ft GATORS in The Villages. Think of LARGE gators as the Gestapo of the Villages lakes and low areas.
........I can't believe that anyone would trade HUMAN life for reptile life. I am NOT saying turn gators into endangered species - I am saying remove the LARGER human-killing ones from dense human communities like OURS. It IS one of those famous "no-brainers" where there is NOT 2 sides of the story!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Normal

There have been ZERO Gator deaths in the Villages to date. They must be doing something right!

They...WHO? The gators or the Village management? The answer, my friend, is actually neither. What if the 85-year-old DEAD woman was your or my mother? Then what? Is there still going to be some academic discussion about which came 1st the Gator or the human? It does NOT, matter, The Gator as a species can continue functioning fine in Florida even if ALL Gators over 4 ft were REMOVED from densely populated elderly communities like The Villages. it is a win / win. No animal loses - the Gator continues to exist JUST NOT BIG, VERY BIG HUMAN AND DOG endangering ones in The Villages. And HUMANS AND DOGS do NOT lose either.
........A big win / win.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Really? Not sure if you are being satiric.
Like I said earlier, we live in a populated community of seniors, some very are very slow physically and mentally. If you wish to own a gator, then you should take responsibility for it and keep it from harming others. Same with the few poisonous snakes here. I suppose by some folks logic, mosquitoes should be left alone and they should not spray here, so we don't cause them any harm. Rats should be left to live in our attics. A few bears aren't going to harm anyone, right?
C'mon folks, get some common sense. Quit trying to compare ridiculous ideas such as the dangers of car, motorcycles, dogs, birds, peanuts, etc. to REAL dangers. You all did leave out accidental drowning in the many/many swimming pools in the Villages.
There is NO common sense reason for a 'gator to stay in the Villages. We do not live in a zoo or a wildlife sanctuary. And please stop feeding the coyotes, because they are being encouraged to stay around residential areas.

Once again, another BLUE MOON..........I agree with this post !
......And coyotes have killed many small children over time in the US. Wild animals should NOT be fed, PERIOD. Small wild birds.......OK. Nothing larger.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by 3105boy

My apologies to the naturalists, but allowing any animals who can kill humans in close proximity is wrong. Alligators are certainly not endangered. Thus, they should be treated like fish. Allow licensed hunters to harvest all in neighborhood ponds over a set size. Feed the poor with the catch. Hunting will make alligators fear humans and we will all be safer.
Photo of my front door…glad the lights were on!

PERFECT EXAMPLE. Perfect post. There really is NO, ZERO way that anyone could possibly come back and LOGICALLY challenge that post. Really IS the "end of the story". The large Winston POTENTIALLY human killing machines called GATORS over 4 ft need to be REMOVED FROM RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES.
........There may be some good environmental benefits associated with small Gators under 4 ft in the Florida lake systems. They may keep down the trash fish or keep the turtle population in check. People in the Villages can look at the smaller sisters of Winston and it should be just as interesting and people would probably see more small ones around if the BIG ones were removed. Again a win / win. Plus, I believe that LARGE Gators are cannibalistic toward smaller Gators. (and small dogs and humans)

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by paminix

So funny!!!

Too GOOD. I wish that I had thought of that one! That might make it into the top ten of all-time TOTV quips.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Now that is a hard thing to say….

Like so many other topics that get discussed here, the preconceived notions come to the fore. If one is comparing dangerous critter to dangerous critter, then the most dangerous critter on the planet happens to not be allligators at all, or even reptiles in general, but—MOSQUITOES!

It is common preconception though. I still get comments from people up north about the dangers of living in Florida, the top two being (in their minds anyway) the killer heat and deadly reptiles. But neither one is a danger if you use a little common sense. As tragic as the death of this woman was, the fact of the matter was that she was trying to rescue her dog from the alligator! Her mistake, and it turned out to be a deadly one, was that as I understand it her and her dog got too close to the water.

All that is needed is a little common sense. Don’t allow Rover to get too close to the water. Dogs are on the menu, people aren’t. Don’t look for your ball if you hit it into the weeds adjacent to a shoreline. Obey the signs that say don’t feed the alligators. Don’t go for romantic moonlight walks along any large(r) pond or body of water, especially not with Rover tagging along. Don’t get too close to that basking alligator so you can get the perfect picture (unless of course your idea of a “perfect picture” is a close-up of teeth). Use your head. Give the gators their space. Both species will be far happier.

You can Google the actual attack. The video I saw stopped after the Woman was knocked down as the VERY LARGE Gator charged out of the water (very fast on land) at the dog and then turned its attention to the woman. It must have gotten to brutal to show after that. I suggest that all the bunny-hugging Winston-lovers WATCH that video and put themselves in her place on the ground with this GIANT dinosaur-like creature with a 2 ft long open jaw up to her face ready to pounce. I won't ever forget that video!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Ipecoraro

People learn to be smart! Stay away from walking by the ponds. Ponds are there for beauty and not to walk along especially with a small dog.
Look what happened to our Buffalo. Someone stupidly reached over the fence to feed them and was bitten. All the buffalo were removed because of this stupid action. We loved watching the Buffalo.
People smarten up!!!

As I heard the story, children went inside the fence to "PET" the Buffalo and the herd leader charged. Either way, that IS right that it was a shame and a GREAT illustration of HUMAN ignorance concerning animals and the potential danger that they can present.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

Oh please, if a dog attacks should we remove all dogs? All raccoons? Snakes? All everything? The woman did a stupid thing when she walked her little dog next to a pond. Period. How she could live as long as she did and not know that you don't walk dogs next to ponds is beyond me. Killing all the gators was a stunt to make people feel good, there will be plenty more where they came from.

Look at the video. The gator comes quickly from far away in the water with only his eyes above water. The Gator was swimming from behind and to the side of the woman. She was NOT looking that way. The Gator made a silent STALK that would have FOOLED men, women, and children. It was an ULTIMATE PREDATOR move with centuries of DNA contributing to the deadly skill of something with a snake-sized brain.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

Oh please, if a dog attacks should we remove all dogs? All raccoons? Snakes? All everything? The woman did a stupid thing when she walked her little dog next to a pond. Period. How she could live as long as she did and not know that you don't walk dogs next to ponds is beyond me. Killing all the gators was a stunt to make people feel good, there will be plenty more where they came from.

They did NOT kill all the Gators. That is impossible. There are too many little ones. They took out the BIG ones that threaten humans and dogs. And yes, it was a classic. " shut the barn door AFTER the horse is gone" situation. Let us HOPE against ALL hopes that the Staff and Owners of the Villages LEARN from this incident and take APPROPRIATE ACTION and remove ALL large (over 4 ft) Gators in the Villages Bubble!
......I wonder if I SHOULD hold my BREATH ?????????

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by TrapX

Alligators were NOT here first. Maybe in Florida, but NOT HERE.
Look at any older satellite image where there were huge open fields before TV was built. No ponds. No alligators.
Then TV was built. Houses, roads, rec centers... and new ponds. Then the alligators moved in.
Alligators invaded our neighborhoods, not the other way around.
One would think the developer hates the bad publicity of allowing alligators to remain here to kill people. It costs him money in lost sales. A lawyer might even win a lawsuit based upon allowing a situation to exist that's known to be dangerous to humans, where they're likely to be harmed by failing to remove the alligators. That's big money.
If it's ok to remove one, than it's ok to remove all of them. Trappers can take every one they find. That can't happen soon enough.

I agree. Great post !

[Normal]

The Villages has an exceptional track record of NO Gator attacks. They continue to do well in keeping everyone safe. What amazes me is the continued disrespect of common sense around wildlife. You can’t continue to remove wildlife and expect them not to return. Alligators migrate a lot. When you can figure out how to control anoles, you may be into figuring out their larger cousins.

Meanwhile, if you remove one, it still gives you no assurance that another one doesn’t come into the area the following day or night.

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I agree! Did you know that birds of prey kill domestic cats allowed to roam free? We need to kill all the bald eagles that fly around The Villages. They present a danger, and they need to be removed. This is a residential community, not a wildlife sanctuary.

excellent reply. BUT---OP needs to realize some villages ARE next to wildlife sanctuaries. we knew this going in & chose our location because of that. maybe relocation of the residents in order??