[Maker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The identified problem is people making dangerous/foolish choices. To correct that you need to change people's behaviors. Alligators are not a risk to you or yours unless you or yours choose to put yourselves at risk. Don't make that choice.

There are plenty of paths right next to the ponds. A reasonable person would assume that they are safe because someone with superior knowledge of this place chose to place them there. But they are not safe. Far from it. You even support that fact by saying everyone needs to change their behaviors. Simply by walking on a path you assumed to be safe, you are putting yourself at risk.

What about alligators wandering away from the ponds looking for food? Lurking hidden in unexpected places? What behavior do we need to change for that?

Changing behaviors isn't a practical solution, especially when guests and children are considered.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Maker

There are plenty of paths right next to the ponds. A reasonable person would assume that they are safe because someone with superior knowledge of this place chose to place them there. But they are not safe. Far from it. You even support that fact by saying everyone needs to change their behaviors. Simply by walking on a path you assumed to be safe, you are putting yourself at risk.

What about alligators wandering away from the ponds looking for food? Lurking hidden in unexpected places? What behavior do we need to change for that?

Changing behaviors isn't a practical solution, especially when guests and children are considered.

One news article about a Villager being killed (or even attacked) while walking on a path... just one.

One news article about an alligator killing a person when the person was not within three feet of the water... (there are no paths that close to water than are not protected by a fence or railing)

I suspect the closest you will find is an article about a car crash caused by hitting an alligator walking across a road late at night in a very rural area.

Give your guests and children more credit - they avoid any number of dangerous behaviors every single day (I would list some, such as not walking into moving traffic, but you would claim they are off-topic)

I agree with the statement from the other poster: Your argument is emotionally charged and lacks rational thinking.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

Don’t agree with your solution. There are 5,000,000 alligators in the USA. To get rid of every alligator would be an enormous and extremely expensive undertaking. Your argument is emotionally charged and lacks rational thinking.

Thank you for pointing out that removing a few hundred alligators from the villages ponds would have zero impact on the total population elsewhere.

Or is this another attempt to deflect to some other conversation by making a wildly unrelated statement about the entire coountry? This is about the villages only. A retirement community of mostly older people and lots of visitors who are generally unaware of the dangers posed by doing routine things such as walking on designated pathways.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Maker

THIS thread is about alligators. It's not about deflecting the focus to other dangers. Perhaps start your own thread to discuss solutions to those other problems.
All sorts of things are made safer as new solutions are implemented once a problem is identified. Seat belts, child proof packaging, fall arrest harnesses, etc.
There is an identified problem. The most effective solution here is to get rid of every alligator.

Well, that IS a solution, all right. It could be the solution to the bee problem as well, as bees (along with their cousins wasps and hornets) kill over 50 times a many Americans each year as to alligators. We COULD eradicate all of them (hugely expensive and no guaranteed result), which would certainly solve the problem of them killing humans. Just like gators. 'Course, the orange grove farmers would suffer a giant chomp to the shorts, but hey! It is all about The Childerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn after all...

Most children learn early on that poking a stick into the nest of paper wasps can net a whole lot of undesirable consequences. Or bees for that matter. As a young lad I once tried to capture bumblebees in one of those old fashioned glass milk bottles. Pretty good scheme actually; I'd sneak up on a bumblebee feeding on a clover blossom, put the bottle slowly right behind the bee, then push the bottle forward so the bee was in the neck of the bottle and at the same time clapping a rag over the end of the bottle. It worked for the first couple of bees until I missed the third one, who took umbrage at my outrageousness and nailed my arm. I dropped the bottle and ran, not even looking back to see if the other two had escaped the bottle and were in hot pursuit. Apparently they weren't: a bumblebee can fly at over 10 mph and I doubt a 7-year-old can run that fast, even as scared as I was. But--lesson learned. I didn't blame the bumblebees. They're more than happy to leave you alone as long as you don't mess with them.

So too with gators. Several of the executive courses I've played on have gator-infested water. The fourth hole on Chula Vista for example, which plays over the water and where I've seen gators at least twice. The 6th and 7th on El Diablo both have fairways that play along the water, the seventh for at least 100 yards, and I've seen gators on both. I've played balls hit within a few yards of the shoreline. I don't do anything crazy, like poking around for balls in weeds that adjoin the shoreline (more for snakes than gators, but you never know). I give them their space. They seem more than happy to give me mine.

We can go on finding something else to blame for our own stupidity for only so long.

[Two Bills]

I just don't understand why some folks move to such a dangerous place as The Villages!
Then complain, and want to change the environment!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Maker

Thank you for pointing out that removing a few hundred alligators from the villages ponds would have zero impact on the total population elsewhere.

Or is this another attempt to deflect to some other conversation by making a wildly unrelated statement about the entire coountry? This is about the villages only. A retirement community of mostly older people and lots of visitors who are generally unaware of the dangers posed by doing routine things such as walking on designated pathways.

What dangers are those (with actual examples please)?

Anecdotal evidence: Villagers complain about everything from "chemtrails" in the sky to people just standing in the dancing areas of the squares. There have certainly been a number of complaints about golf carts endangering bicyclists and bicyclist endangering pedestrians. What I cannot remember ever seeing was a post about alligators endangering anyone on the trails. This doesn't prove a negative but since the locals are so quick to provide evidence, the lack thereof is telling.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

I would like to state that my fear of alligators was one of the reasons I was hesitant about moving to the Villages. This is an awful, tragic thing that happened and totally avoidable. Developments with dense populations, especially vulnerable populations like seniors or children, should remove them and locate them elsewhere.

90%+ of removals entails killing the animal.

[Normal]

I’ll put money down that more Villagers have died of natural causes than alligator attacks. Let me enjoy the views of nature that may include alligators. You can move back where you came from.

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Normal

I’ll put money down that more Villagers have died of natural causes than alligator attacks. Let me enjoy the views of nature that may include alligators. You can move back where you came from.

Put the alligators back to where THEY came from. There were no alligators in any pond that was dug while building the villages.
If you want to see an invasive species, go to a swamp in Louisiana.

[Happydaz]

This whole thread is getting ridiculous. Let’s face it, no one is going to remove all the alligators from the Villages. Someone would have to be delusional to think they could get this accomplished. I think we are really talking about irrational fear here and no amount of rational discussion will solve this issue.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

Let’s face it, no one is going to remove all the alligators from the Villages. Someone would have to be delusional to think they could get this accomplished.

I agree that we could probably never get rid of all of them. But just because you can't reach perfection doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to make the attempt. It seems that when there is an attack (whether on a person or an animal) the alligators are trapped and removed rather quickly. Most people would prefer to have them removed before the attack. Hence, the title of this thread.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

This whole thread is getting ridiculous. Let’s face it, no one is going to remove all the alligators from the Villages. Someone would have to be delusional to think they could get this accomplished. I think we are really talking about irrational fear here and no amount of rational discussion will solve this issue.

Agreed.

One thing that IS being accomplished here however is to give some sterling examples of just what kind of "thinking" has America ensnared today. Excusing the stupidity by totally removing the whatever-it-is that people are being stupid about. It sure does seem to cover a lot of things in America 2023.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Maker

Put the alligators back to where THEY came from. There were no alligators in any pond that was dug while building the villages.
If you want to see an invasive species, go to a swamp in Louisiana.

What was good for the goose, is just as good for the gander. Perhaps those who can’t deal with the native Florida habitat should relocate to where they were from? There have always been gators south of 44. Lakes Okahumpa and Deaton have always been full of them.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I disagree. No gator that BIG should be ALLOWED to live NEAR dense human communities. Should tigers and lions be allowed to roam free in the Villages. What about freshwater sharks? Are they OK?

I have no problem with them, since they're only found in Australia and Asia...

And tigers and lions are predators to man. Alligators, are not, as a rule...

[JMintzer]

Number of deaths/year by animals...

Deadliest animals to humans 2022 | Statista

Mosquitoes are #1 with approx 1,000,000 deaths/year...

Oddly, Alligators don't even make this list...