[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

I don't know how quickly information got from Wuhan to whomever makes the decisions. What has been reported is that a few people were seriously ill in Wuhan with something that a small group of doctors thought was new and contagious. They didn't know what it was, but clearly they were right. How long did China delay?

There are no dates earlier than Dec 30 that I can find for a definitive diagnosis of a SARS like virus. This is HERE in a Wikipedia page on the doctor who sent reports out when he saw the lab report and was reprimanded by the government, and later died of COVID. Dr Li issued his warning not to the government but to other doctors to wear PPE as he was aware of 7 cases.



On Jan 5, less than one week later, the WHO released its initial statement on the still un-identified virus.

Does that sound like a major delay? How long did it take our government to react to HIV/AIDS? To blame the Chinese for not shutting everything down because of a few deaths in a single city is a wonderful example of 20/20 hindsight. How long did it take the US to shut down anything, already knowing what was coming, that it was deadly and untreatable? How hard did people here in The Villages fight against closing swimming pools and pickleball courts, because everything seemed fine.

Some has posted here as evidence of the Great Chinese Conspiracy that they didn't ask for us to send our CDC to help. I don't recall our country asking for outside help with our health care problems. China, believe it or not, actually has a lot of bright scientists and doctors and their own CDC which managed to produce test kits that actually worked unlike ours.

We know what COVID is whereas China did not at the end of Dec and early Jan. Even knowing how easily it spreads and how deadly it can be, and with 100's and 1000's of known cases, what is our leadership most worried about now? Why the need to open up our economy. This was best expressed by a few people who are shall I gently say, to the right of the midline...
Dr Oz, regular contributor on one highly watched network, who opined that a 2 to 3 % death rate was preferable to keeping schools closed. And the Lt. Gov of Texas who said grandparents are willing to die if that is what is needed to save the economy, and then doubled down on that message more this week on Fox:



So if I'm understanding the anti-China argument...because they were worried about their economy they failed to lock down after a few cases and before they'd identified an organism BUT per the GOP person who is a apparently thoughtful enough to be a regular FOX guest, Texas should not have been locked down because the economy is more important than lives, especially old people.

My neck is sore from the whiplash.

What should China have done sooner? I doubt our country would have responded any more quickly had it begun here.

Well said. Thank you.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Aces4

When did politics get invited to the party?

The very first sentence of the original post by JGVillages


It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world.

thus for my posts
- Remember Nov 3 was your interpretation of a voting for one position
- No more political than the entire thread
- Never communicated my own political persuasions if any
- Offered no personal position if I agreed or not that China should be punished

[blueash]

Originally Posted by tomhinz

I think that most if not all of us think that because China hates the US, that the act was deliberate.

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

[jmcica@aol.com]

I shop online for clothes- I have to contact seller or boutique to find out where prod is made. Many times it says shipped from US or something similar.china has taken so much from US- I will do my part from here on in.

Originally Posted by JGVillages

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by blueash

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

Your post is an excellent example of the CCP Denial Syndrome, coupled with a touch of mea culpa.

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

No. My common sense is making me think that it is preposterous to think a country would launch a pandemic that harmed it's own people.

I have never sued anyone in my life, nor been sued.

i tend to agree with you. we know there is a lab located in china that works with viruses, & the way things look, it was accidentally released. it festered round china, then moved to italy, iran, spain, etc before it got to us in full force. if china wanted it to hit just us, i'd think they'd find a better way to do it. as for products made in china; i've stopped buying them long ago, esp anything pet-food related

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by blueash

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death...

Just trying to follow your logic...

China, in an unprecedented move in world history, completely quarantined some 60+ MILLION of its citizens, but had NO IDEA of "what was coming or how bad it could be"? Why the quarantine then? Isn't it more likely they knew they were dealing with a novel virus that transmitted human to human, thus the imposition of the quarantine? It is my understanding they denied its human to human transmission for another approximately three weeks.

Let's not overlook or dismiss that the quarantine DID NOT include international air travel to other countries. If they were alarmed enough to quarantine 60+ million domestically, why allow the virus to spread to the rest of the world via air travel? Obviously this was a CHOICE by the CCP not to shutdown international air travel concurrent with the domestic quarantine. Why did they make that CHOICE?

[xcaligirl]

Originally Posted by JGVillages

It will be a long time, if ever, that our Congress doe anything useful to punish China for unleashing this Virus on us and the world. What Congress should to do, along with the Food & Drug Administration is mandate that ALL products (ie:clothing, food, prescriptions, et all) are labeled with a large easy to find word or symbol that gives us the ability to choose what we purchase intelligently and immediately. Most often when products are ordered online there is no way to determine where the product is made and in many cases that it will ship from "the slow boat from China". My wife and I have been attempting to find the origin of products, not often easy or even possible, when purchasing in store or online. It is time for a serious American grass roots effort to put Communist China on the back burner. I know it is far cheaper to purchase most comparable Chinese to American made products, so for those who cannot afford to buy American made that is understandable and should be their choice. For myself I am on a new mission to buy NON CHINEESE PRODUCTS and I hope that our regulators will make our freedom to choose, by easier and mandated "where products are manufactured" identification. That also includes products assembled here, but consist of Chinese components. "We the People can get this done!!"

If I cannot find WHERE the company is located or where they are actually shipping from, I don't order the product. I'm better off without it! Learned the hard way...

[sallybowron]

My son took his family to Hawaii on spring break. He and his daughter got really sick and had to return home. He is a doctor but the Corona thing had not been published yet. Yesterday he said he wonders if he and Little Keva didn't have the corona virus.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by blueash

Who is "us"? A few conspiracy pushers think "the act" was deliberate. I am unaware of any other people thinking it was. This whole blame China reeks of deflection. What has happened here is on us, our government, our planning, ourselves. We knew it was coming, we knew how bad it might be [not it would be, but it might be] and our leadership local to national downplayed it, said we'd be fine, it was only one case here or there and it would all go away before it spread.

China did not know what was coming, did not know how bad it could be, and shut down Wuhan 13 days after the first recognized death, more quickly than we shut down our epicenters. Shame on us, both parties.

On Mar 1 NYC had its first positive patient. The mayor said go about your business. On Mar 15 NYC schools were closed by the governor and ordered bars and restaurants would close on Mar 17. That is 16 days after the first confirmed case and by that time metro NYC had hundreds of cases. NYC has never been shut down, unlike Wuhan where shelter in place was ordered. Now tell me again how China was too slow and is entirely to blame for all the COVID problems here. Wuhan is a bigger city than NY.

You are spectacularly misinformed.

December 6: According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.”

December 25: Chinese medical staff in two hospitals in Wuhan are suspected of contracting viral pneumonia and are quarantined. This is additional strong evidence of human-to-human transmission.

Sometime in “Late December”: Wuhan hospitals notice “an exponential increase” in the number of cases that cannot be linked back to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, according to the New England Journal of Medicine

December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

December 31: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

January 3: The Chinese government continued efforts to suppress all information about the virus: “China’s National Health Commission, the nation’s top health authority, ordered institutions not to publish any information related to the unknown disease, and ordered labs to transfer any samples they had to designated testing institutions, or to destroy them."

January 5: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission put out a statement with updated numbers of cases but repeated, “preliminary investigations have shown no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infections.”

January 14: Wuhan city health authorities release another statement declaring, “Among the close contacts, no related cases were found.” Wuhan doctors have known this was false since early December, from the first victim and his wife, who did not visit the market.

The World Health Organization echoes China’s assessment: “Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in Wuhan, China.”

This is five or six weeks after the first evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan.

January 21 Chinese officials finally acknowledge human to human transmission of the virus.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

Reported on Fox News TV newscast... prior to issuing a written report, sources will often speak anonymously about its contents which is what Fox News reported as a "Breaking Story."

Reported on Fox News . . . sources will often speak anonymously

[cherylncliff]

Tariffs are paid by consumers, not China and not the importer. If you have not figured this out, then go take Econ 101.

[crc19188]

There is a way to look at the bar code on items to see where they come from. You may have to Google it.

[Astron]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

If you would like a legal standard of "proof," maybe you should sue the Chinese Communist Party in a court of law and find out if they really did it?

Missouri is trying to do that, but is likely to have the case tossed out. Nations have sovereign immunity against such suits, according to the reports I have been reading.

Pandemics have happened before and will happen again. The problems we are facing are a direct result of our Own failure as nation to properly prepare for the inevitable pandemic. It is not the failure of any one politician or political party. There is more than enough blame for everyone at all levels of government for generations gone by. Since pandemics occur infrequently, we collectively chose to ignore the known risk. We are now paying the price for our collective failures to prepare.

[Phinbob]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

If that would help I would be all for it. But first someone has to prove to me that it was a deliberate act rather than a natural occurrence.

Their attempted cover-up and deceit to the rest of the world was not a natural occurrence.