[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon

I think this topic is very important and should not be categorized as political. The problem is that there are those who have made it political. It affects us all, as we can see with the latest hurricane, which caused so much damage and flooding because according to the experts contained more water and flooding effects because of global warming.

Don't forget the humorous aspect.

One winter in the 1990s I was living in Duluth, MN. It gets cold there but not as bad as the rest of the state because of the moderating effect of Lake Superior. One morning I woke up to a howling windstorm. Local radio reported that the temp. was something like -35 but with the wind the windchill was approaching -115 fahrenheit. North of us was even worse. The actual temperature (not windchill) in a small town about 100 miles north of Duluth was -60, which I believe is the record for the lowest temperature ever recorded in Minnesota.

It was so cold up there that they had to call off the scheduled annual conference on--you guessed it--global warming!

[Gunny2403]

Bogus!

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I agree with your post, except I disagree with pointing to any single event and suggesting it was caused by Global Warming/Climate Change.

But, yes, some have chosen politics and common sense (*ahem) over science. The scientists may not be 100% correct, but they are not 100% wrong ether.

Good point. True science is nothing more or less than revising theories as more data becomes available, and climate change is certainly not immune to that.

But honestly I don't think the issue is the science at all. It is how we are conditioned to react to the science. Back in Minnesota we had a weather phenomenon called a "Canadian high", which was a high-pressure system coming down from Canada almost always in the wake of a snowstorm. Canadian highs are characterized by high pressure, clear skies, wind, and low temperature. I remember many days of -40 or less growing up there, usually in the midst of one of those Canadian highs. Major storms could cause problems, but Canadian highs didn't. They were welcome.

However some years back our esteemed National Weather Service stopped using the term "Canadian high". Such weather events were now "polar vortexes", a pretty grim term; MUCH more foreboding than "Canadian high". I remember once reading that the intent of the name change was precisely to make it sound more foreboding--the intent being to make people more aware of the danger of such an event! Which, in my not-so-humble opinion, is pure malarkey.

The overriding problem becomes the fear engendered by the science, not the science itself. And how many other such examples NOT related to weather or the science of global warming could each of us list? My list would contain probably 20 such examples and I'm sure there are examples I haven't thought of.

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself!" (Franklin Delano Roosevelt, from his first inaugural address)

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon

I think this topic is very important and should not be categorized as political. The problem is that there are those who have made it political. It affects us all, as we can see with the latest hurricane, which caused so much damage and flooding because according to the experts contained more water and flooding effects because of global warming.

It would be nice to have a forum here to openly discuss topics like this even if it drifts out of the lane. Like those at daily newspaper, there apparently some people feel we old folks can’t handle difficult discussions.
Regarding Ian, weather events adversely impact more people because more people are inhabiting areas vulnerable to said events. The more we try to “fix” a particular problem, the more damage we cause. The environmental disaster coming from lithium mining in poor countries and disposal of toxic battery waste will come to bear long after we’re gone. This generation will be blamed for that, too. Not to mention the country being beholden to other countries for our energy needs.

[Blackbird45]

This is one of the recurring topics that always seem to end up being shut down because there are two politic points. There is a way to address this and it's by approaching it in a different manner. Put climate change aside, I do not believe there is anyone here who can say we have not polluted land, sea and air. If you can agree on that much and you agree that if we do not do something about it, it's going to get worst, then you can discuss this without politics. George Carlin would say saving the planet is B.S., the planet will survive long after we're gone. when the planet is tired of us it will shake up off like a bunch of flees. So, if you have any interest in saving mankind it's time, we get off our butts and do something.

[Larchap49]

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon

I think this topic is very important and should not be categorized as political. The problem is that there are those who have made it political. It affects us all, as we can see with the latest hurricane, which caused so much damage and flooding because according to the experts contained more water and flooding effects because of global warming.

Sorry I'm not convinced of this Global warming. Weather is cyclical, it changes trends over years just as the daily weather changes every day. Look at weather history. Oh and I don't believe that electric cars and the like will work either. Just for a minute think what powers all the equipment to mine the raw material, transport it, manufacture the batteries, transport the finished product, and dispose of the used up batteries, Also what powers the production of electricity. OIL AND COAL. In the end there is no difference in the footprint. It's all smoke and mirrors that our government and big business is perpetuating on us. We probably do need an alternate means of power but electric is not it.

[Randyj66]

Ok, so we dedicate the rest of our lives to attempt to correct a problem that some feel exists, but in reality we forget 2 major things!
1. The earth is round and spins on its axis.
2. The Earth just like every other planet out there is magnetically attracted to the sun.
With that being said, unless the entire world heeds the same warning all we are doing is wasting our time. We are just attempting to give everyone else a cleaner environment once the Earth rotates.
Second, planets are attracted to the sun then eventually supernova! This process intails consuming a planets outer gap ring first causing catastrophic warning and extreme weather patterns till the end of that planet. Sorry nothing crazy just simple science. No different than those trying to capitalize on bomb shelters, someone knows exactly how to addresses your hidden fears and turn them into reality. I can even get most to believe in Big foot too. Don't follow, look at the science!

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Gunny2403

Bogus!

Well, I guess that settles it...

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Gunny2403

Bogus!

Prove it

[rogerrice60]

Originally Posted by midiwiz

all you guys are pretty funny, thanks for the chuckle. A few of you have it correct - some agree some don't. The real fact here is that no one considers that hundreds of years ago Florida was only a nib not the long penninsula that it is today. You also don't count that a lot of the coast has been more or less manufactured. That part has nothing to do with any science, it's just human stupidity.

I raw numbers historically there is now enough data to quantify any of this, it's merely theory that those that need something to whine about are now whining about. Through the years this has been a topic I have noticed many facts appear from different sources some counting extremely minor degree changes (<3) to cycles being presented as well. No matter what data you think you have that potentially proves it, it actually doesn't due to other data.


To cut to the chase - it's real simple - any person that feels that a small group of people, 1 person, or a large group of people can actually change mother nature is far out of their mind. From all the activists on this topic I have seen and spoken to, I really want part of whatever it is they are smoking it's got to be killer. Respect Mother Nature, she shook her skin off centuries ago because she had a problem with what was on her....she can do it again. While the human species is actually dumb enough to wipe itself out, I think Mother Nature will beat them to it. Don't fight it, you definitely will not fix anything - not ever - not in our lifetime either. To think you will, again can I have some of what you are smoking?

Best reply yet!
Don't forget, in the 1960's people were claiming GLOBAL COOLING was going to tip the earth over due to the enlarging ice cap!
God's the only one who will destroy His earth.. Thank Him for His many blessings!

[Regorp]

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon

I think this topic is very important and should not be categorized as political. The problem is that there are those who have made it political. It affects us all, as we can see with the latest hurricane, which caused so much damage and flooding because according to the experts contained more water and flooding effects because of global warming.

Logically, even if humans did not inhabit Earth, there would still be weather events like hurricane, typhoon, earthquake, and volcano, but all are natural phenomenon.

[fcgiii]

The climate is always changing.
Little of this change is under our control.
Global climate change is global
Wrecking the US Oil and gas industry on the altar of green energy is useless as long as China, India, South America, and Africa all keep growing and pumping out CO2
The only truly green energy source is nuclear power, which the green wave never embraces
The green wave is really the attempt for centralized control of the energy industry. The government already controls the health care industry, the defense industry, the banking industry, and has Big Tech and Big Ag in its grip. The pandemic wiped out much of small business.

[PersonOfInterest]

Not to worry. God has the situation well in hand and will have a solution within the next thousand years or so.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by midiwiz

The real fact here is that no one considers that hundreds of years ago

it's merely theory that those that need something to whine about are now whining about.

No matter what data you think you have that potentially proves it, it actually doesn't due to other data.


To cut to the chase - it's real simple - any person that feels that a small group of people, 1 person, or a large group of people can actually change mother nature is far out of their mind. ?

So, you think that by making rude insults you will encourage people to accept your view?

Do you have a degree in climatology? Where did you study and have you done any post-graduate work in the field? On that's right you are on the "common sense" side of the argument.


Please explain how electricity works?'
Please explain how a nuclear reactor works.
Please explain how a microwave oven works.

Please only use common sense - since you don't please people that have devoted their lives to studying the science behind why things work

And I am sure all the scientists have very low IQs and qualify as STUPID per your remarks

[rsibole]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Any single event could easily be the first, or one of many heretofore unrecognized symptoms of climate change. Actually, global warming/climate change was a thing before the first brave politician ever mentioned it. Brave because he knew he was signing his political death warrant and would be subjected to ridicule.
The question, can man effect the climate?
Can an insect effect the life of a building?
I say "yes" to both questions.
The building may have an expected lifespan. A single insect can't do much. But hundreds of thousands of termites can certainly contribute to the early demise of that structure.
Likewise, earth with a smattering of humans probably wouldn't notice us. But with billions scouring the earth and destroying habitats and devouring resources. Yes! I do think human activity is definitely having an effect. And billions more to come from the billions here already.
Like lemmings who over populated and destroyed their island home, they jump in the sea and hope to find another home. We live on an island in space. How soon before we over populate and the planet can't cope? We are not yet able to, figuratively speaking, jump off this island and start swimming.

The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from the Consulate at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.


Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.


Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.


Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coast cities uninhabitable.

I must apologize. I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2 , 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post 96 years ago. This must have been caused by the Model T Ford's emissions or possibly from horse and cattle farts.