[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

BTK, I do respect your opinion, but must disagree. I think too many of the older generation is stuck in THE GOOD OLE DAYS and is not seeking ways to move forward and improve. We have done so many good things in the last 50 years, but in the area of permissive sexual behaver, we are failing because of our old fashioned ways. I don't want the problem left up to the Young teenagers, but also we must not allow old people to make decisions on how to handle this problem. All we get from the older generation is GOD will be angry or WHEN I WAS DATING or comments like that. Young people today look at our generation and laugh because we are so out of touch with reality. We need to talk to them, not try to guilt trip them into our way of doing things. The GOOD OLD DAY ways are the very reason we are loosing the fight. Either change or please step out of the way and let someone else try.

Your opinion is noted, however your counseling or advising that because things are the way they are today we must turn away from core values and beliefs. It is one perspective to have one's own view but to take anothers view and summarily subordinate and or propose dismissing it to suit the current message is pretty presumptuous......step out of the way indeed....

This type of arbitrary posturing has oh such a familiar ring from another day and another forum!!!!

btk

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

You are right for a snap shot in time, but realize, that at one point in history, basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong was very different, so along came the New Testament. That new document changed the playing field a great deal. Now, it is time to change that playing field again. Move into the 21 century and update those: basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong. I mean, if you wish to go back to the good old days or even back to the old testament ways and rules, their is a religion right now that would allow you to do that and it is called radical Islam. When Christianity modified the bible, the Muslims said hell no and to this day claim basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong should not be changed and they have stuck to their principles but I for one do not feel they are applicable today. But, if I did wish to go back to the good ole days, I would say Why not back to the first written word.

[nitehawk]

Like to see a "honest/anonymous" survey of TVs (good old days generation) == how many had sex before marriage and how many would not be married to their present partner if they had used a condom

[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

The sticky wicket comes about.....when defining those "basic principles."

Within our lifetimes, "morality," "integrity" and "right-vs-wrong" included beliefs that women should not work/receive equal pay, minorities were not equal and did not deserve equal rights, interracial marriages should be outlawed, etc., etc.

It's just a shame in my mind, that we all don't believe "basic principles" should include tolerance/acceptance of others different from us.

We actually should be instilling beliefs such as tolerance, treating others how we want to be treated, obeying the law, not hurting others and keeping our noses out of other peoples business that doesn't' affect us.

The really ironic part about all of this, is that even our parents/grandparents were lamenting about the decline of society because of the "younger generation."

Yes folks, they were talking about....YOU.


.

[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Like to see a "honest/anonymous" survey of TVs (good old days generation) == how many had sex before marriage and how many would not be married to their present partner if they had used a condom

Ooooooh......I like it!


.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Your opinion is noted, however your counseling or advising that because things are the way they are today we must turn away from core values and beliefs. It is one perspective to have one's own view but to take anothers view and summarily subordinate and or propose dismissing it to suit the current message is pretty presumptuous......step out of the way indeed....

This type of arbitrary posturing has oh such a familiar ring from another day and another forum!!!!

btk

Sorry you took it that way, I only meant to get across that our children are very important even more so than our personal beliefs and feelings. Please don't feel that you have been dismissed, but rather asked to step aside allowing others with Ideas that might work give it a try. Also, I am not counseling, but giving my opinion. If someone has a better one, I would be happy to step aside with you. I do know that the good old days methods are no longer working nor appropriate to hang onto at this time. In summery, trying to drag kids today into 1950's values is not going to happen, hence, a waste of time and unfortunately lives.

[billethkid]

"...asked to step aside allowing others with Ideas that might work give it a try...."

Stepping aside suggests giving up one's principals, which is not going to happen.

"...I do know that the good old days methods are no longer working nor appropriate to hang onto at this time...."

Based on what criteria?

"...trying to drag kids today into 1950's values is not going to happen..."

At no time was it mentioned to revert back to the 50's.....and a conclusion that good old days = old fogeys or something that doesn't work are personal opinions which may well not be general consesus or approval as presented!

"...a waste of time and unfortunately lives...."

it is never a waste of time when efforts are put forth or proposed to make things better.

Some of us refer to the good old days with no particular era or time frame in mind. Only a time when morals and tolerance and discipline were more prominent. Some of us are not objecting to the new "rights", but do strenuously defend the new rights need not degrade core values.

The simple notion that today = OK and yesterday = unacceptable is a single point of data/opinion.

For me this horse is more than dead and is approaching the state of wheel spinning......time to move on (very different from getting out of the way).

btk

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by billethkid

"...asked to step aside allowing others with Ideas that might work give it a try...."

Stepping aside suggests giving up one's principals, which is not going to happen.

"...I do know that the good old days methods are no longer working nor appropriate to hang onto at this time...."

Based on what criteria?

"...trying to drag kids today into 1950's values is not going to happen..."

At no time was it mentioned to revert back to the 50's.....and a conclusion that good old days = old fogeys or something that doesn't work are personal opinions which may well not be general consesus or approval as presented!

"...a waste of time and unfortunately lives...."

it is never a waste of time when efforts are put forth or proposed to make things better.

Some of us refer to the good old days with no particular era or time frame in mind. Only a time when morals and tolerance and discipline were more prominent. Some of us are not objecting to the new "rights", but do strenuously defend the new rights need not degrade core values.

The simple notion that today = OK and yesterday = unacceptable is a single point of data/opinion.

For me this horse is more than dead and is approaching the state of wheel spinning......time to move on (very different from getting out of the way).

btk

I agree BTK, this horse is more than dead, so since we agree on that, lets just drop this conversation and move on. It is obvious that you do not understand what I am trying to convey and GOD knows I do not understand your point of view. I spend a lot of time with my two daughters and my two granddaughters in an attempt to understand the problems they face in todays world and try to relate them to the OLD DAYS like you and I lived. Trust me, they are not the same today as they were, so the GOOD OLD DAYS mentality will not work for this younger generation. But, since you feel further discussion is not productive, I will honor your request and drop it.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Like to see a "honest/anonymous" survey of TVs (good old days generation) == how many had sex before marriage and how many would not be married to their present partner if they had used a condom

I went to a small high school back in the day. There were certainly girls that "had" to get married, and others that had illegal abortions. Occasionally a girl would go away to "visit an aunt", which meant they were going to a home for unwed mothers and giving their baby up for adoption. And they were all good girls, who made a mometary bad decision. Much tragedy could have been averted had condoms been easily accessible.

[buggyone]

The condom giveaway programs are truly a good thing to have.

For all of those posters who are against the program, how would they feel if their grandkids failed to use a condom and the result was either an unplanned pregancy or AIDS?

You can talk to the teens and pre-teens until you are blue but there is always that one moment of weakness and your talk is useless.

I think the one poster who tried to politicize this thread by stating the condoms from Planned Parenthood were defective was really comical.

[rubicon]

Society believes a 12-13 year old can handle the need for a condom, "same sex behavior etc but adults in NYC are being controlled by the food police because they can't handle their own eating and drinking.

This country is just upside down. What's next setting up orgies for kids.

since when have morals, intergrity and ethical behavior become passe'

[Golfingnut]

[createquilts]

We all know that since the beginning of time people have had sex without the benefit of marriage. I have been reading and thinking about this and my opinion has to do with the values of the society our kids are being raised.
Think of all the little things that people today do that kids are exposed to when they are forming their moral codes. Calling in sick if you really aren't sick, driving after having alcohol, driving way above the speed limit, bringing home office supplies (ie stealing), using illegal drugs (even something "harmless" as pot).
How many kids today are being raised by divorced parents who at one point said "till death do us part"? How many are in a home where a parent has had sex without the benefit of marriage? There are lots of people who are living together unmarried with kids in the house. If not in their house, perhaps a relative or a friends parents. And what goes on in the movies or on TV certainly gives you reason to lose your breath. The news today is full of white collar crime as well.

I have plenty of guilt myself to living a life that is not up to the moral code I hold myself to now at my advanced age, and even now I do things at times that I should not. I know I could be a kinder more tolerant person. But it seems to me that before we judge others we all need to have some introspection as to why our society is the way it is today.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by buggyone

The condom giveaway programs are truly a good thing to have.

For all of those posters who are against the program, how would they feel if their grandkids failed to use a condom and the result was either an unplanned pregancy or AIDS?

You can talk to the teens and pre-teens until you are blue but there is always that one moment of weakness and your talk is useless.

I think the one poster who tried to politicize this thread by stating the condoms from Planned Parenthood were defective was really comical.

Buggyone for president. Simple honest accurate post.

[wendyquat]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

I so agree! Wish I'd said that!