[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Garywt

Not that I would ever buy one but to leave MA to take the 20 hour drive down, how much longer would it take. Also, no different than an electric golf cart, if the batteries die and you are not near a charger, what do you do. Come 2 AM how hard is it to find a charger. I will stay with gas.

If you run out of gas and you are not near a filling station what do you do? The range of the EV and the ICe are about the same now. So, no real difference there, if you are careless and run out of gas, you pay to have someone bring you some. There are services to bring you a charger to get you charged enough to get you to a charging station.

[GrumpyOldMan]

This thread is turning hillarious.

I hope everyone realizes ALL these comments were made about Model T's. LOL! "I am gonna stick with my horse, this here gasoline thing ain't never gonna amount to nothin..." LOL.

[Garywt]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

If you run out of gas and you are not near a filling station what do you do? The range of the EV and the ICe are about the same now. So, no real difference there, if you are careless and run out of gas, you pay to have someone bring you some. There are services to bring you a charger to get you charged enough to get you to a charging station.

Getting a gallon of gas is easy and you are on your way. For a charge, you wait for the battery to charge and then when you find a charging station you sit and wait again. In the mean time the gas vehicle is at least an hour down the road.

Might be nice for around town but not to travel with.

I prefer a gasoline powered car. But, I admire what Musk is doing with Tesla and his space ventures. Unfortunately here’s some facts to ponder for EV fans who think that’s the future.
——————-
A year ago, J.D. Power issued a “reality check” for automakers, reporting that consumer’s enthusiasm for EVs remained at 55 on a scale of 100.

“Frankly, we’re concerned for automakers,” Kristin Kolodge, executive director of driver interaction & human machine interface research at J.D. Power, said at the time. “They’re pushing forward with technology that consumers seem to have little interest in.”

The first quarter of 2021 may or may not signal a change in attitudes. But while the jump in sales of EV and hybrids in the first quarter is eye-popping in terms of percentage, it adds up to about 300,000 units out of the nearly 4 million cars and trucks consumers purchased.

[biker1]

EV sales in the US for 2020 were about 2% (new vehicles). This will probably increase to 3-4% for 2021 so the trajectory is upward. Perhaps this increases to 10-15% by 2025 ??? 14 million news cars were sold in the US last year. It will take some time to build battery factories to make enough batteries to reach a point where EV sales exceed gas car sales - perhaps by the end of the decade??

The EV market in the US is dominated by Tesla and they sell every car they can make - about 300K in 2020. Their sales are constrained by their battery production.

Tesla is also a luxury car brand and they either essentially match or outsell every other luxury brand in the US such as Lexus, MB, Audi, BWM, Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Infinity, Porsche, Volvo, etc. They also essentially match or outsell Mazda and VW in the US. The Tesla Model 3 is the best selling luxury model in the US.

The real concern for automakers in the US should be China. EVs might become a disruptive technology - think of the iPhone. You know where iPhones are manufactured.

Originally Posted by John41

I prefer a gasoline powered car. But, I admire what Musk is doing with Tesla and his space ventures. Unfortunately here’s some facts to ponder for EV fans who think that’s the future.
——————-
A year ago, J.D. Power issued a “reality check” for automakers, reporting that consumer’s enthusiasm for EVs remained at 55 on a scale of 100.

“Frankly, we’re concerned for automakers,” Kristin Kolodge, executive director of driver interaction & human machine interface research at J.D. Power, said at the time. “They’re pushing forward with technology that consumers seem to have little interest in.”

The first quarter of 2021 may or may not signal a change in attitudes. But while the jump in sales of EV and hybrids in the first quarter is eye-popping in terms of percentage, it adds up to about 300,000 units out of the nearly 4 million cars and trucks consumers purchased.

[Topspinmo]

I will never own Tesla. Hybrid maybe? But, never all electric.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Garywt

Getting a gallon of gas is easy and you are on your way. For a charge, you wait for the battery to charge, and then when you find a charging station you sit and wait again. In the meantime, the gas vehicle is at least an hour down the road.

Might be nice for around town but not to travel with.

So, you get a gallon of gas and you are on your way, for what 20 miles? Hope you find a gas station within that 20 miles. Roadside battery quick charge services are becoming available for road service in some places now. It is a pickup truck towing a generator. They come out, plug you in, and in 15 or 20 minutes you have 20 miles.

Best advice, don't run out of fuel - the gas or charge is cheap, the $150 for the road service is a pain, and the hour or two waiting for the roadside service to get to you is a pain.

Also, don't forget that Tesla monitors your charge level and usage, it also knows where all charging stations are, where you are going and which station is the safest to route you to ensure you don't run out of charge on the road.

ICE vehicles can accomplish similar navigation aid, but few offers it built in.

The only REAL differences are: first, time to fuel. gas takes 5 minutes, EV takes 30. Second is cost, gas costs about $0.10/mile, EV costs about $0.04/per - not a major difference but adds up - say 100,000 miles comes to $10,000 for gas and $4,000 for EV. ICE will need oil changes (5 or 10? at $100 each?), brakes (once at $500 to $1000?), and various maintenance visits (service costs to maintain warranty) - say a couple of thousand total if it is a similarly priced car. EV will need little to no maintenance, no brakes, no oil changes, no filters, etc, etc etc.

So, for 100,000 miles in say 3 years (lots of driving long distance) ICE will run you about what in operational costs, $15,000? EV will run you about $5,000. And I am being VERY generous on the cost of driving an ICE. As a consultant for 35 years, I billed $0.35 to $0.50 per mile to drive to and from my client's place. With an EV I could have reduced that to about $0.10/mile and saved them some money.

So, for that $10,000 estimated additional cost, you save maybe 25 minutes each time you fill up on the road. Planned correctly that time is spent eating, refreshing, and getting a little fresh air. At home, around town, unlike the ICE, you might never have to go to a charging station to fill up, your car can recharge overnight every night. So, it is always ready to go the full range. (In case of saying an unexpected hurricane (highly unlikely - LOL) comes and you forgot to get gas, you need to stand in line with all the other ICE cars to fill up so you can evacuate, with the EV you can take off and go 200 miles or more before having to recharge. That will get you almost to Atlanta?

I will completely agree it is very new technology and there could be unforeseen costs that come up down the road - so to say (sorry for the pun).

And the upfront costs are higher - feature for feature. But the long-term total cost of ownership, the EV wins. At least that is what places like the police departments that are brutal on cruisers are finding. The Tesla model 3s pay for themselves in reduced maintenance costs within a year or two, because they drive them hard and over 100,000 miles per year. Companies like Amazon are preordering fleets of EVs (not Teslas, but EVs) for delivery vehicles - again because the cost of ownership is so much lower. The post office is investing in a fleet renewal that is likely mostly EVs. Taxi services around the world are buying. In Quatar they are already using Teslas for self-driving shuttle service to/from the airport. Again the big selling point is the total cost of ownership, not local convenience or "cuteness".

Tesla is a pioneer in the field, they charge a premium, and they get it. They are almost always back-ordered on all models. The Model S (mentioned in the thread? or was it a Y - I forget) is back-ordered all the way into next year. Not so much for practical reasons, but because a lot of people like the idea of a "luxury car" (family sedan) that goes 0-60 in under 2 seconds. LOL. Not practical, but people are not very practical.

Tesla also does not have the highest build quality. It is not bad, but it is not as good as comparably priced cars. They went through a manufacturing learning curve in a couple of years that all the other car companies went through over decades. Tesla does not compare to a nice BWM, Lexus, etc. But, they are learning and getting better.

Anyway, sorry, I tend to ramble - LOL on...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by biker1

EV sales in the US for 2020 were about 2% (new vehicles). This will probably increase to 3-4% for 2021 so the trajectory is upward. Perhaps this increases to 10-15% by 2025 ??? 14 million news cars were sold in the US last year. It will take some time to build battery factories to make enough batteries to reach a point where EV sales exceed gas car sales - perhaps by the end of the decade??

The EV market in the US is dominated by Tesla and they sell every car they can make - about 300K in 2020. Their sales are constrained by their battery production.

Tesla is also a luxury car brand and they either essentially match or outsell every other luxury brand in the US such as Lexus, MB, Audi, BWM, Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Infinity, Porsche, Volvo, etc. They also essentially match or outsell Mazda and VW in the US. The Tesla Model 3 is the best selling luxury model in the US.

The real concern for automakers in the US should be China. EVs might become a disruptive technology - think of the iPhone. You know where iPhones are manufactured.

Yup to all this. One note, Tesla is rumored to be preparing an "under $25k" model for release this year or early next year. That will be disruptive.

I do believe one should never underestimate Musk's ability to be disruptive. The world said he couldn't reduce the cost and time to drill tunnels, he did, they said he couldn't make a practical EV, he did, they said he couldn't reuse rockets, he is. If he is anything it is disruptive - LOL

[Northerner52]

The politicians will force you to buy electric in the future even thought the grid still makes dirty electricity. We will need charging parking lots the size of Walmarts to charge cars as many do not have garages and 220 volts chargers at home.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I have heard enough to decide that I don't want to buy an electric car. But, for me, the biggest issue is that, even with a fast charging time, there is no guarantee that you won't need to wait in line to plug in.

[Bay Kid]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

If you run out of gas and you are not near a filling station what do you do? The range of the EV and the ICe are about the same now. So, no real difference there, if you are careless and run out of gas, you pay to have someone bring you some. There are services to bring you a charger to get you charged enough to get you to a charging station.

I have over 500 miles on a full tank until empty. Should never be a problem running out of gas. If you need a charge in the middle of no charge you will need gas/diesel to help give you a charge.

Never run so low you run out of anything!

[spd2918]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

His was not a model 3, but you hat Telsas we got it. Don't buy one, please.

I dont hate them. I just hate my money paying wealthy people's bills. You are obviously in the cult.

I'm done asking why they need to be subsidized as no one can answer that.

[spd2918]

The Comfort of the rich (Tesla owners) depends on an abundant supply of the poor (people's tax dollars) --- Voltaire

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Northerner52

The politicians will force you to buy electric in the future even thought the grid still makes dirty electricity. We will need charging parking lots the size of Walmarts to charge cars as many do not have garages and 220 volts chargers at home.

Plus everything made out of fossil fuels or mined with fossil fuels. Without fossil fuels there would be no electric’s everything made to produce electricity is made out of fossil fuels. So there will alway be drilling and mining. Coal is cheap and plentiful thought out the world, wind don’t blow everywhere, clouds block solar panels, and it’s getting worse with comtrails every year.


We will all be dust or skeletons before solar or wind power even comes close to 50% of energy needed whe would populations keeps growing, that population growth is 3rd world where they use the dirtiest of all energy choices. Will there be day fossils will be reduce to where green energy is now? I hope so, but IMO not for at least another 100 years.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by spd2918

I don't hate them. I just hate my money paying wealthy people's bills. You are obviously in the cult.

I'm done asking why they need to be subsidized as no one can answer that.

Sorry, I missed your question. And maybe people would answer your questions if you stopped insulting them. I am not in a cult. If that is the game you want to play, then you are obviously in THE cult.

As with many questions from people in YOUR cult, the question is framed to presume a negative intent on the part of the government. The reason the government subsidizes new technology development is that in an economy where there are long-established competing technologies, it can be impossible for something that is good and beneficial to society to become competitive. Subsidizing the new technology for a short period of time it gives it the ability to reach a level of production that is able to compete. This results in everyone benefiting, not just the rich.

But, I understand, in your CULT you believe taxes are a crime and any expenditure that doesn't benefit you is stealing your money and giving it to the poor - communist. "


There, am I getting better at playing your insult game? I feel so good now, almost like I was 10 years old again.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Plus everything made out of fossil fuels or mined with fossil fuels. Without fossil fuels there would be no electric’s everything made to produce electricity is made out of fossil fuels. So there will alway be drilling and mining. Coal is cheap and plentiful thought out the world, wind don’t blow everywhere, clouds block solar panels, and it’s getting worse with comtrails every year.


We will all be dust or skeletons before solar or wind power even comes close to 50% of energy needed whe would populations keeps growing, that population growth is 3rd world where they use the dirtiest of all energy choices. Will there be day fossils will be reduce to where green energy is now? I hope so, but IMO not for at least another 100 years.

I assume this was sarcasm? Alternative energy is rapidly advancing around the world, only here is it considered a bad thing.