[Joanne19335]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Meet Professor Lockdown. Professor Neil Ferguson, epidemiologist at Imperial College London. I'll get to the pretty lady in a sec.

Attachment 83985

Professor Ferguson's computer models projected 500k deaths in UK, 2.2 million in USA if strict lockdowns and social distancing were not put in place immediately. UK and USA governments listened. He later lowered his estimates drastically, but damage was done.

He just resigned after being caught having the pretty lady, who is married, over to his house a couple times. This was direct violation of UK rules forbidding intermingling of households. According to the Telegraph, “She has told friends about her relationship with Prof Ferguson, but does not believe their actions to be hypocritical because she considers the households to be one" LOL Anyway, the Professor apparently believes you should do as I say, not what I do.

So I am watching reports about Sweden, the only country I know that has not enacted a lockdown to see how they are doing. Their death rate per million (282) is higher than their Baltic neighbors, but much lower than UK, Spain, France, Italy. Our death rate per million in USA is 214. So many think this shows their herd immunity approach is not working.

Total confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people - Our World in Data

However, you need to look at the big picture. This is by no means over yet. We were sold the lockdown because it flattens the curve and the main reason to do this is so our hospitals do not get overrun. There are no reports of Sweden's hospitals getting overrun. Their economy has not taken the huge hit that ours has.

The lockdown does not stop the virus from killing people, it just slows it down. Epidemiologists and Dr Fauci predict that we will have successive waves of this virus for 1.5 to 2 years. We may have to lockdown again if it gets really bad.

So let's say Sweden achieves herd immunity in a few months, their death toll will stop growing. Countries who have taken the lockdown approach will continue to have deaths and their numbers will grow, passing Sweden.

The only thing that will change this is if an effective vaccine is produced. That could be in 6 months, two years, or never. At this point, I think if a vaccine is produced in 6 months or less, the lockdown approach is probably better. If not, we may find out Sweden's strategy is the better one.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Hate to be negative here, but the fat lady is just warming up.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Joanne19335

Hate to be negative here, but the fat lady is just warming up.

And you know this HOW???

Unless you are a virologist or epidemiologist with the CDC or WHO with a specialty in the pathogenesis of single stranded RNA viruses, your statement is PURE CONJECTURE

[Eg_cruz]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Meet Professor Lockdown. Professor Neil Ferguson, epidemiologist at Imperial College London. I'll get to the pretty lady in a sec.

Attachment 83985

Professor Ferguson's computer models projected 500k deaths in UK, 2.2 million in USA if strict lockdowns and social distancing were not put in place immediately. UK and USA governments listened. He later lowered his estimates drastically, but damage was done.

He just resigned after being caught having the pretty lady, who is married, over to his house a couple times. This was direct violation of UK rules forbidding intermingling of households. According to the Telegraph, “She has told friends about her relationship with Prof Ferguson, but does not believe their actions to be hypocritical because she considers the households to be one" LOL Anyway, the Professor apparently believes you should do as I say, not what I do.

So I am watching reports about Sweden, the only country I know that has not enacted a lockdown to see how they are doing. Their death rate per million (282) is higher than their Baltic neighbors, but much lower than UK, Spain, France, Italy. Our death rate per million in USA is 214. So many think this shows their herd immunity approach is not working.

Total confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people - Our World in Data

However, you need to look at the big picture. This is by no means over yet. We were sold the lockdown because it flattens the curve and the main reason to do this is so our hospitals do not get overrun. There are no reports of Sweden's hospitals getting overrun. Their economy has not taken the huge hit that ours has.

The lockdown does not stop the virus from killing people, it just slows it down. Epidemiologists and Dr Fauci predict that we will have successive waves of this virus for 1.5 to 2 years. We may have to lockdown again if it gets really bad.

So let's say Sweden achieves herd immunity in a few months, their death toll will stop growing. Countries who have taken the lockdown approach will continue to have deaths and their numbers will grow, passing Sweden.

The only thing that will change this is if an effective vaccine is produced. That could be in 6 months, two years, or never. At this point, I think if a vaccine is produced in 6 months or less, the lockdown approach is probably better. If not, we may find out Sweden's strategy is the better one.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

I really do not believe anyone’s numbers. FYI 206 per million is higher then must country Switzerland is the 18th highest cases recorded so not sure they doing that great. If you believe the recorded data then China is doing great with only 3 per million deaths....lol. I think we may have made mis-steps absolutely but I truly believe our death toll would have been so much higher.....only time will tell and all our Monday Morning Quarterbacks won’t change anything unless we are willing to learn from this.

[catlady1955@aol.com]

Sweden has advantages that we don’t. At any sign of illness they can go on paid sick leave and they have socialized medicine.

[La lamy]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Meet Professor Lockdown. Professor Neil Ferguson, epidemiologist at Imperial College London. I'll get to the pretty lady in a sec.

Attachment 83985

Professor Ferguson's computer models projected 500k deaths in UK, 2.2 million in USA if strict lockdowns and social distancing were not put in place immediately. UK and USA governments listened. He later lowered his estimates drastically, but damage was done.

He just resigned after being caught having the pretty lady, who is married, over to his house a couple times. This was direct violation of UK rules forbidding intermingling of households. According to the Telegraph, “She has told friends about her relationship with Prof Ferguson, but does not believe their actions to be hypocritical because she considers the households to be one" LOL Anyway, the Professor apparently believes you should do as I say, not what I do.

So I am watching reports about Sweden, the only country I know that has not enacted a lockdown to see how they are doing. Their death rate per million (282) is higher than their Baltic neighbors, but much lower than UK, Spain, France, Italy. Our death rate per million in USA is 214. So many think this shows their herd immunity approach is not working.

Total confirmed COVID-19 deaths per million people - Our World in Data

However, you need to look at the big picture. This is by no means over yet. We were sold the lockdown because it flattens the curve and the main reason to do this is so our hospitals do not get overrun. There are no reports of Sweden's hospitals getting overrun. Their economy has not taken the huge hit that ours has.

The lockdown does not stop the virus from killing people, it just slows it down. Epidemiologists and Dr Fauci predict that we will have successive waves of this virus for 1.5 to 2 years. We may have to lockdown again if it gets really bad.

So let's say Sweden achieves herd immunity in a few months, their death toll will stop growing. Countries who have taken the lockdown approach will continue to have deaths and their numbers will grow, passing Sweden.

The only thing that will change this is if an effective vaccine is produced. That could be in 6 months, two years, or never. At this point, I think if a vaccine is produced in 6 months or less, the lockdown approach is probably better. If not, we may find out Sweden's strategy is the better one.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

I disagree that "the only thing that will change this is if an effective vaccine is produced". I also really want them to work on treating the virus with effective methods, rather than wait for a vaccine that may be ineffective for the inevitable mutations of this virus (which is already happening).

[Skunky1]

The pain will continue until the lesson is learned

[matandch]

Herd immunity will require a horrendous death toll to get there. Mothers, fathers, grandparents, sisters, brothers, friends, maybe me and you will be sacrificed to accomplish this goal. Is it worth it?

What does the implied affair with the pretty have to do with anything? At any rate, the best defense against this virus getting out of hand would have been requiring everyone to wear masks or a face covering (nose and mouth) when anywhere in public. The mask or covering drastically reduces the chance that an infected individual will spread the virus, not 100% of course, but I think better than what we are doing now. It would still be a good move and then we could open things up much quicker. Why there is so much resistance to that is beyond me. Why do some think it such a big deal, or some kind of infringement of their rights? Is a lockdown and business closures better? Get everyone wearing a mask or covering and then get things back open with little to no restrictions.

[drgoofy]

Herd immunity works great if you're not the member of the herd being culled.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by theruizs

What does the implied affair with the pretty have to do with anything? At any rate, the best defense against this virus getting out of hand would have been requiring everyone to wear masks or a face covering (nose and mouth) when anywhere in public. The mask or covering drastically reduces the chance that an infected individual will spread the virus, not 100% of course, but I think better than what we are doing now. It would still be a good move and then we could open things up much quicker. Why there is so much resistance to that is beyond me. Why do some think it such a big deal, or some kind of infringement of their rights? Is a lockdown and business closures better? Get everyone wearing a mask or covering and then get things back open with little to no restrictions.

Agree 100% for INDOOR environments. Completely unnecessary OUTDOORS

Here are the findings of a recent study:

"Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. The first salient feature of the 318 identified outbreaks that involved three or more cases is that they all occurred in indoor environments. Although this finding was expected, its significance has not been well recognized by the community and by policy makers. Indoors is where our lives and work are in modern civilization. The transmission of respiratory infections such as SARS-CoV-2 from the infected to the susceptible is an indoor phenomenon."

Now here is a question I would really like a legitimate answer to:

I have seen dozens of people driving alone in their car with the windows up and wearing a mask. WHY???. I'd like to hear from any of those people as to what they are thinking, since I can't come up with a reason.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Agree 100% for INDOOR environments. Completely unnecessary OUTDOORS

Here are the findings of a recent study:

"Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. The first salient feature of the 318 identified outbreaks that involved three or more cases is that they all occurred in indoor environments. Although this finding was expected, its significance has not been well recognized by the community and by policy makers. Indoors is where our lives and work are in modern civilization. The transmission of respiratory infections such as SARS-CoV-2 from the infected to the susceptible is an indoor phenomenon."

Now here is a question I would really like a legitimate answer to:

I have seen dozens of people driving alone in their car with the windows up and wearing a mask. WHY???. I'd like to hear from any of those people as to what they are thinking, since I can't come up with a reason.

I am not one of those people. I have to think they think they are doing the right thing. They aren't really, wearing masks in their cars.

But, I like THEM a tad better than those who are all concerned about losing their rights because of temporary rules set up for a very unusual happening.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Eg_cruz@comcast.net

I really do not believe anyone’s numbers. FYI 206 per million is higher then must country Switzerland is the 18th highest cases recorded so not sure they doing that great. If you believe the recorded data then China is doing great with only 3 per million deaths....lol. I think we may have made mis-steps absolutely but I truly believe our death toll would have been so much higher.....only time will tell and all our Monday Morning Quarterbacks won’t change anything unless we are willing to learn from this.

I believe the numbers from western countries. China numbers are garbage. They actually banned funerals Feb 1st in a childish attempt to hide their death totals. Third world countries lack testing capabilities to give a true picture.

It seems you missed a key point in in my post. The data we see about total cases, death rates etc is just a snapshot in time. We haven't even finished the first quarter of this game. The winners are determined when the game is over.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Agree 100% for INDOOR environments. Completely unnecessary OUTDOORS

Here are the findings of a recent study:

"Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. The first salient feature of the 318 identified outbreaks that involved three or more cases is that they all occurred in indoor environments. Although this finding was expected, its significance has not been well recognized by the community and by policy makers. Indoors is where our lives and work are in modern civilization. The transmission of respiratory infections such as SARS-CoV-2 from the infected to the susceptible is an indoor phenomenon."

Now here is a question I would really like a legitimate answer to:

I have seen dozens of people driving alone in their car with the windows up and wearing a mask. WHY???. I'd like to hear from any of those people as to what they are thinking, since I can't come up with a reason.

Right, we don’t wear them when we walk. Although, if it looked liked we would be outside standing in a line or something we might. Also, masks don’t help restaurants or bars so social distancing would still be necessary. I just think most of these closures and lockdowns are overkill when masks actually are a better solution in many cases.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by theruizs

What does the implied affair with the pretty have to do with anything?

Lets see. The scientist whose phony models scared the world into enacting strict lockdowns and social distancing doesn't see fit to follow the rules himself. Reminds me of a mayor who closed all gyms but kept going himself.

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And you know this HOW???

Unless you are a virologist or epidemiologist with the CDC or WHO with a specialty in the pathogenesis of single stranded RNA viruses, your statement is PURE CONJECTURE

Your statement would apply to almost all comments made by TOTV contributors to this topic. People are only offering their opinions.