[LoriL]

You just said it. Those who choose not to be vaccinated are punished by the government! That is not who we are.

[LoriL]

ExecChef, you nailed it! Thank you.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by LoriL

You just said it. Those who choose not to be vaccinated are punished by the government! That is not who we are.

Yes it is....those that voluntarily choose to put others in harm's way should be punished. Just because people don't believe the science or the statistics doesn't give them any more right to put others in danger. Taking care of each other is who we are and even if you don't believe you could participate to keep those that do safe.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

No..you see the goal here is to get everyone vaccinated so the world can open up again...not so they can continue to sit home. So what is best for all....not just you..is to get vaccinated and get out there and live again without worry. Its not a hard concept...kind of like the store, no mask..no entry.....you don't like it. Go elsewhere

That's just your opinion. Personally, I am not worried about everyone else getting the vaccination. And I do not care if I get the virus, since I know of at least two dozen that have had it and shrugged it off easier than a common cold. And I am in better shape than almost all of them. So, you see just because some are ruled by fear and insist on fear mongering, I do not allow unproven statements influence my opinion. If you wish to get the shot, so be it. Just don't insist I do the same FOR YOU. If I decide to get the shot, I will do it solely for my spouse, not you or anyone else that insists that everyone do what you wish them to do. I have been to a leprosy colony and I know what some folks ignorant fear mongering can do to ostracize folks when they are not well informed with legitimate facts.
Facts so far that seem to be proven:
More folks over 65yo die of covid than under 65.
More folks survive covid infection than die from it.
Most young folks that are infected with the virus, suffer little if any from it.
The population of the U.S. over 65yo is about 16.5%.
40-50% of those that tested positive have been asymptomatic.
For those over 65yo the mortality to infection rate is about 5.6%. [of those infected]

By examining stats, one can determine if someone is blowing smoke up your rear and fear mongering. On the other hand, information is powerful and gives you the satisfaction of knowing that you are not basing your decision on hysteria, but on evidence/facts.

I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I prefer to weigh the options and see if the action of participating out weighs the long term effects.
Things to know:
How long will the immunity last? six months? three months?
How great is my existing immunity? Will this increase my survival or weaken it?
Why is the infection rate increasing, but deaths from the virus DECREASING? Will the death rate level off or drop down to an acceptable level of risk?
Things that will not influence my decision:
What other folks think that have no more information than me.
What other folks demand as far as conformance to their specifications.
Someone else's opinion of non-conformance, and insisting that they are morally superior when evidence/facts does not support their disingenuous outrage.

I am not a threat as I do not have COVID so telling me that I need to conform to your standard has little effect on my need to protect you from the evil plague.

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by ScottS

Ask yourself why is it now illegal to report deaths from the vaccine. Why is there no place on a death certificate for death related to the vaccine. Coffee bean stop being so narrow minded about this subject. The actual amount of deaths from the vaccine would shock you. And the percentage grows astronomically the older you are. Most of us have gone back to life as we knew it. Other than being FORCED to wear a mask where you work. Yes FORCED. Over and over again masks have been proven to cause more harm than good, yet here we are a year later still wearing diapers on our faces like good little sheep. Anyone wanting digital proof of a vaccine is a fool. Anyone wanting mandated vaccines is a fool. And you saying they should be required to attend concerts, sporting events, public transportation etc is pure selfishness. Not surprising but yet selfish. The amount of deaths and tragic side effects from this virtually untested vaccine is astonishing, but thanks to the selfish people out there who choose to blindly follow the herd, these deaths are acceptable. How sad.

What is your source for the statements about people dying after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine? Also what is the source for the statement that it is illegal to report deaths from the vaccine? How is it possible for an individual to gain access to all the death certificates issued in the U.S. since the vaccine became available in December to see if the vaccine could be listed as a cause of death?

If having a to wear a face mask when working in my office (before my employer went all remote again in early November) or in a retail store is the most burdensome thing I have been asked to do, I have certainly led a most fortunate life. I think about what PPE my nieces and friends in health care have to wear when they are on duty in the the hospitals they work at.

My 90 year old father is anxious to get the vaccine so he can attend in-person church again. I hope he can get the vaccine within a few weeks. As for me, I am under 65, so realistically I may not be able to get the vaccine before June 1. i will be glad to get the vaccine when I am eligible. I would like to visit my father without worrying that I am an asymptomatic carrier. I want to sing with my church choir again...something that hasn't happened since mid-March last year. I would like to return to in-person church services again. I would like to attend live theater with my theater friends again. I haven't seen the majority of my coworkers in person for almost a year now. I would love for my youngest niece, who is a freshman in college, to be able to take her classes in person, not via Zoom. So for this person, and a lot of other people I know, life has has not returned to what it was before mid-March 2020. But hey, I'm just a sheep, so what do I know?

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

So glad there is digital proof of vaccination in the works. Paper proof is so easily forged and is basically worthless.

I want to see vaccination mandated for public transportation, getting on cruise ships, entrance to theme parks, entrance to sporting events, entrance to concerts and so much more. The list is endless. Maybe some of you anti-vaxers will change your minds about getting the shot.

Microsoft, Salesforce and Oracle working on Covid vaccination passport

Realistically the federal government can not mandate that you get the vaccine. Private business can certainly require that their employees are vaccinated. I doubt that private businesses such as cruise lines would require their customers be vaccinated. They operate worldwide and thus far other countries are even less willing than Americans to receive the vaccine.
My question is, if you get the vaccine, why are you concerned if I don’t? You are the one who is “protected”.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Realistically the federal government can not mandate that you get the vaccine. Private business can certainly require that their employees are vaccinated. I doubt that private businesses such as cruise lines would require their customers be vaccinated. They operate worldwide and thus far other countries are even less willing than Americans to receive the vaccine.
My question is, if you get the vaccine, why are you concerned if I don’t? You are the one who is “protected”.

[Bev Fricks]

I can tell you this! I am an RN and I do COVID-19 vaccinations. I have access to the cards that YOU think can be forged!! How dare you?? We are professionals and NO ONE where I work would ever forge anything! We have licenses to protect. These cards are not left out to the public, just like the vaccines, they are protected by lock and key. Let's tattoo it on your forehead so you feel better.
Bev, RN.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

People hear that concept all the time - like in church - like the 10 commandments. Do unto others as you would do to yourself.

That's not how it goes at all

[stanley]

Originally Posted by JoMar

....those that voluntarily choose to put others in harm's way should be punished. .

So who would do the "punishing" and what should the "punishment" be?

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by Packer Fan

I am specifically going to not reply directly to anyone here, but write a post based on reading the whole thread. Overall a decent discussion, but there were a few HUGE falsehoods too, one that was scarey in how off base it was. Please read my whole post before you comment. Let me preface by saying I am still working and own 2 houses in TV. I am 57 and have an Engineering degree and an MBA and my wife, who agrees with everything I am going to write is a nurse with 35 years of experience and now is a district nurse in a school system. We are both conservatives. My wife has been vacinated with the Pfizer vaccine, my CNA daughter with the Moderna, as well as my daughter in law who is a Dental assistant. I will get vaccinated as soon as I can.
I have read everything on the vaccines INCLUDING the entire scientific reports on the Moderna and Pfizer phase 1/2 and 3 studies. I will read the J&J when it is available. What's more important is I UNDERSTAND THE STATISTICS AND WHAT THEY MEAN. I have taught basic statistics at the college level in fact as an adjunct professor.

1. This virus is a real pain in the butt. For the VAST majority of people, it is no big deal(I have MANY employees that have had it, for most it was a headache or being tired a few days). HOWEVER, for some, especially the old, it kills them. It also does kill a small number of people you would not expect it to seamingly at random. For the most part it really does not hurt kids. Seriously, it is way less deadly to those under 25 than the Flu. People that are worried about their kids or grandkids should stop - worry about your elderly relatives in The Villages! I would rather get the vaccine than play russian roulette with my life.
2. These vaccines are effective and SAFE. The sample sizes in this study are HUGE. The p values are such that application of these statistics to conclusions about the population is basically a certainty. There are some side effects that pass quickly. The one side effect that happens in people with a history of alergic reactions can be treated with an Epi pen. NOBODY HAS DIED FROM THE VACCINE in the trials. Statistically, based on the trial data, it would be more likely that you have a car accident while being struck by lightning and having a heart attack all at the same time than dying from this vaccine.
3. Long term side effects- ok, seriously? What crazyperson have you been listening to that you got the video from your consiracy theory loving cousin in Facebook personal messenger? Come on, we all are getting this crazy crap. So here is the reality - there are hundreds of vaccines and ZERO have ever had side effects more than a few weeks out. That is why they insist the trials run for at least 2 months. Now, maybe you make the case that the new mRNA vaccines are new technology, so we are not sure. OK, then take the J&J vaccine when it is approved next month - that is OLD PROVEN TECHNOLOGY. On top of that, you do realize this is a few micrograms of material that can't replicate right? You should read the boxes you are eating your food out of and by WAY more worried about all the chemicals in that than in these vaccines.
4. Lots of people dying from the vaccine - please refer to number 2 above, but let me say that like 8000 people die every day in the USA, mostly the elderly but not exclusively. The chances of a few of those having had the vaccine in the past few days is just about certain since we are giving 1.3 million doses a day. EVERY ONE OF THESE is being publicized in the media, and they are all being investigated by the CDC. NONE have been found to be caused by the vaccine, and they won't be. This notion is as crazy as people who think vaccines cause Autism because some crazy actress said it did.
5. Masks and shutdowns. ok, so have you noticed that the places that have the toughest mask mandates and lockdowns have had the biggest spikes???? I can read a graph, Masks do zero. Lockdowns are effective, IF they are like the Chinese and you actually lock everyone down, but we don't do that and can't, so the virus keeps spreading. It makes our rulers feel good, but just hurts small business.
6. Tracking - here we get to it. We have laws in this country- a right to privacy, HIPAA, ADA that will prevent this. Also, I believe the vast majority including most of us who will be getting vacinated don't think it is good. It is tyranny and fascism. It is mainly being pushed by the "My body, my choice" crowd, but I guess this is somehow different when it actually IS my body? I think not. The difference between this and requiring vaccinations in schools to me comes down to this - if you don't want to get vaccinated, that is up to you, if you don't want to vaccinate your kids, that is hurting another human being- have you seen the results of getting polio? Not vaccinating your kids with proven vaccines that have been around for decades and been proven safe is just wrong. Sorry. Even that is pushing the line to some extent, but the line IS a grey one, we all know that.
7. Herd immunity- yes, this is important. Even the 20 and 30 somethings should get vacinnated so we reach herd immunity - the main reason is these annoying variants. If you have lots of people with Covid, lots of chances for variants, if not, less chances. Simple as that. The quicker we get to herd immunity, the better.

Here is my bottom line- If you have had Covid-19 with minor symptoms, I believe you should wait until at least the summer to get vaccinated - you have the antibodies and even if you get it again, probably won't be bad. Let others get vacinnated first. If you have not and are over 50, I think you are crazy not to get vaccinated unless you have serious allergic reactions to things. If you have concerns, get the J&J vaccine that should be available in March. If you don't, it's like playing Russian roulette, sorry, it is if you don't get vaccinated. ALL 3 vaccines have had ZERO people end up in the hospital with Covid after being vaccinated, it makes it non deadly. I do understand the people who are 30 that work for me saying they don't need it, but even most of them are going to get it after the older people do, so we can reach herd immunity and maybe we can get rid of it completely - we will see.

Excellent synthesis of the facts - thanks!

[oneclickplus]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

So glad there is digital proof of vaccination in the works. Paper proof is so easily forged and is basically worthless.

I want to see vaccination mandated for public transportation, getting on cruise ships, entrance to theme parks, entrance to sporting events, entrance to concerts and so much more. The list is endless. Maybe some of you anti-vaxers will change your minds about getting the shot.

Microsoft, Salesforce and Oracle working on Covid vaccination passport

You sound like a true totalitarian dictator. Move to Venezuela and run for office.

[oneclickplus]

Originally Posted by ldivens

Mandating vaccines is un-American. My body my choice

That is exactly correct. I (anyone) have the right to refuse to be vaccinated. My body, my choice. My right to make this choice is in the SAME paragraph of the constitution where a woman can choose to have an abortion. Go look it up - it's right there in plain text.

And don't think about arguing that failure to get vaccinated puts others at risk. Getting an abortion is 100% lethal to someone else. This stupid virus is weak and has only a 0.3% chance of death and most of those are the very old and sick.

[oneclickplus]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Anti-trackers = anti-vaxxers.

Proud anti-vaxxer here. And I'm in the majority.

Most healthcare workers declining the vaccine. What do they know?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...146_story.html

[Packer Fan]

Originally Posted by dhdallas

Myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had COVID and are naturally immune.

Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response. - WHO (World Health Organization)

People with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or HIV) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated - WHO (World Health Organization)

Vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects. - NIH (National Institute of Health)

Example: The United States stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man. - CBS News, 60 Minutes

These new COVID vaccines were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the IFPMA, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. It takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy. - International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations

Thus, for those who have had COVID, getting vaccinated is not only pointless but potentially dangerous. - David H. Dallas, RN-ASN, EMT-P, retired

Just to clarify one thing - the reason we don't get smallpox vaccinations anymore is Smallpox is EXTINCT due to the Vaccine. It was such a horrible disease that enough people got the vaccine to kill Smallpox forever. We should be thankful for that.

As far as getting the vaccine if you have had it. I am fine with that logic, but we don't know how long your immunity will last. It is hard to blame you, especially if you had a very mild case.