[senior citizen]

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[senior citizen]

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[Suddz]

This is my first ever post on TOTV. I have been a regular reader since the first time I visited TV a couple of years ago. May I recommend that that you read the book called More Guns, Less Crime? It is written by an economist named John Lott. It is based on years of research of gun related statistics plus interviews.. You will be shocked at what the statistics and evidence shows.

There are some recent interviews with John Lott on various news shows.

[Cisco Kid]

Maryland Mall Evacuated & Locked Down After Sneaker Fight « CBS Baltimore


It looks like we may have to ban Air Jordans next.
It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt.

[Golfingnut]

John Lott, really. You can't be serious. LOL Please spare me.

[Suddz]

The info is out there. Some will do their homework, look at evidence, and become informed. Others will choose to ignore the evidence.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by Suddz

The info is out there. Some will do their homework, look at evidence, and become informed. Others will choose to ignore the evidence.

One person's "evidence" is another person's junk science. Comparing weapons of war with gasoline and sandals and spouting bromides such as "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and the old standby, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns", does nothing to critically evaluate the problem and seek common sense solutions. This thread has fallen off the tracks and is no longer of value IMO. I'm out..

[DaleMN]

Logic and compassion defies most.

[wendyquat]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

One person's "evidence" is another person's junk science. Comparing weapons of war with gasoline and sandals and spouting bromides such as "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and the old standby, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns", does nothing to critically evaluate the problem and seek common sense solutions. This thread has fallen off the tracks and is no longer of value IMO. I'm out..

So, I'm hearing when things don't go your way " you are out"!
Did it occur to you my "bromides" might be correct?

Gracie is right, no solution here so no need to argue! I'm out!

[Suddz]

There was another mass shooting attempt last week in a mall in Portland. After two innocent people were shot, a citizen with a concealed carry permit pulled his gun. He didn't shoot the assailant because he didn't have a clear shot and others were near the line of fire. The assailant saw him. His next shot took his own life. This was not on the mass media for some strange reason.

A similar event happened in a Salt Lake City mall except an off duty police officer shot the assailant (who had enough ammo to kill lots of people).

The gunman in CT also killed himself when the police got close.

The gunman in Aurora drove past theaters (that were also showing the Batman movie) that weren't gun free zones to a theater that was a gun free zone. Statistically, in the other theaters, between 2 and 4 people would have had guns.

We can't know exactly will happen in all situations but we can look at the commonalities and make smart decisions.

[Suzi]

The fabric of our society has changed dramatically. I think if any meaningful dialog is to take place about this and many other "tragic" recent events, we have to address the very core of our current beliefs.
All of us "mature" adults remember the good-ole-days.
1. Respect for ourselves and others. We would address others by Mr. Smith etc.
We would dress properly: no pj's in the mall etc.
Halloween is the place for black fingernails and goulish faces.
2. Schools were a place for education and teachers were respected (refer to #1)
not babysitting. Parents respected teachers and backed them up. You HAD to
go to school.
3. Marriage, family values, living small but happy.
4. Drug problems you read about in the newspaper-not in your home, family or
school.
5. Faith was an intregal part of your family life.
6. We had paper routes or babysitting for spending money. Parents didn't just "pop"
for everything we wanted.
7. Don't get mad at me but: there was a Mom in the house. Mom wasn't out working
so we had 2 cars, name-brand jeans, boat, 4-wheeler etc. Dad lived in the
home, had a job, was married to mom, we were all his children, did the outside
chores and paid us a small allowance to help with chores.
8. We had goals: Doctor, lawyer, indian chief...whatever. And our parents were
part of that discourse. What we would be in life was not left to the whims of the
school or government. Parents had a role in who we became.
9. Living was pretty safe: police had guns, nobody had too much $ so theft was
fairly rare. The worst you had to worry about was drunks but they would just beg
for your change for a bottle and most of the time the policemen would hustle
them away.
10. There were no video games. Disney was the movies you could see at the show.
You couldn't hold-hands at high school.
There are many more examples of how our lives have changed. But to discuss gun ownership, illiteracy in schools, violence, teen pregnancy, drug use, and a host of other ills, we must look to the ways our society as a whole has changed over the years and if those societal changes need to be addressed.

[manaboutown]

Mexico has strong gun control laws and , apparently, only one gun store which is run by the police. It seems that the gun control laws there take away the right of ordinary citizens to defend themselves which make it a piece of cake for the criminal, drug gangs and the like to get away with horrendous (multiple) murders.

Many ordinary citizens who realize they may have occasion to protect themselves own guns illegally.

Mexico Shows That Tight Gun Control Laws Don't Guarantee Compliance - Hit & Run : Reason.com

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Mexico has strong gun control laws and , apparently, only one gun store which is run by the police. It seems that the gun control laws there take away the right of ordinary citizens to defend themselves which make it a piece of cake for the criminal, drug gangs and the like to get away with horrendous (multiple) murders.

Many ordinary citizens who realize they may have occasion to protect themselves own guns illegally.

Mexico Shows That Tight Gun Control Laws Don't Guarantee Compliance - Hit & Run : Reason.com

I have yet to hear anyone talk about a total ban on guns here in the US.

[Trish Crocker]

I just read an article about gun control in Japan. Apparently, ALL handguns are banned. You can get a rifle or air gun but before you do you must take a course on gun safety, be trained at a shooting range, have psychological testing and also have medical tests done. In 2008 there were 11 deaths attributed to guns and that was a huge amount for that country. If we don't ban guns what is wrong with requiring proof of the ability to handle them? The writer of this article also mentioned the fact that the constitution allowed the right to bear arms to enable citizens to protect themselves against government tyranny. He went on to say that at that time, both government soldiers and civilians had muskets. If you think having a handgun or any other weaponry is going to protect you from the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines should the government decide to turn on it's citizens...you are Crazy..and definitely should not be allowed to handle weapons of any kind!

[blueash]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Mexico has strong gun control laws and , apparently, only one gun store which is run by the police. It seems that the gun control laws there take away the right of ordinary citizens to defend themselves which make it a piece of cake for the criminal, drug gangs and the like to get away with horrendous (multiple) murders.

Many ordinary citizens who realize they may have occasion to protect themselves own guns illegally.

Mexico Shows That Tight Gun Control Laws Don't Guarantee Compliance - Hit & Run : Reason.com

And Canada, UK, Australia, France, Germany etc etc which are much better examples of countries with strong governments, non-corrupted police and military, first world nations, like the USA have strong gun regulations and miniscule gun murder rates. Please, if you are trying to make comparisons to other countries, picks ones most like ours for this issue at hand.