[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

OH, PLEASE! Not "the rich paid 90% in taxes" fallacy again...

One man's fallacy is another man's fact and most important American principle - that a STRONG middle class makes a STRONG COUNTRY. Today we have a STRONG upper-income class.......just like the ancient Romans had when Rome fell. We have outsourced our MIDDLE-CLASS to China. Now everyone can see that THEY are taking that STRONG middle class and flexing their muscle against BOTH the US and Taiwan. So, yes I do think that the legislative changes to the tax RATES put in place for the benefit of the upper class after the 1950s are DANGEROUS for the US and the world. I AM aware of it, most are not. Please allow me to have an OPINION!

The above paragraph relates the BASIS that has allowed people from Jack Welsh and the Koch brothers to Steve Jobs, Sam Bankman-Fried, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, AND OUR FAVORITE IN THIS CONVERSATION--------the wonderful ELON MUSK - to PULL from the US economy more riches than any South American DICTATOR possesses. I am NOT saying that those individuals do NOT deserve to earn/accumulate more riches than people in the middle class. It is a matter of degree. Japanese CEOs used to (and still may) be embarrassed to make more than 10 times what their average line worker makes. Musk and Zuckerberg make thousands of times more than their worker bees. That is the DEGREE and the problem of which I speak. I am NOT saying to change the American system - just to make it fairer and RESTORE the middle class which the upper class has outsourced to China and other countries.

When we talk about a "dumpster fire" that is BOTH Musk and SB-F........they are merely actors taking ADVANTAGE of their GREATER environment. The US economic environment in which most resources / money have drifted upward from the middle-class to the uber-upper class from 1950 to today. That is the REAL dumpster fire!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

In your mind, perhaps. The truth is the dollar is worthless in that it is like Monopoly money. More can be printed anytime and at the end of the day it’s a paper sheet which has no actual value. It’s being devalued as we post. I’d take land, gold or silver over it any day.

"Land, gold, and silver" are nice to possess, but are difficult to carry around in your pocket. Or send to your niece in Oregon. They get translated to money / dollars , which get translated into a checking account. Then into a credit card. All for the purpose of convenient ECONOMIC transactions, without which there becomes basically no US economy. I don't think that we want that!
.......Owning land, gold, and silver is a GOOD idea as a hedge against inflation. But, the concept of MONEY has great importance!

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

That IS interesting. I did not know that.

CKSG didn’t give a clarification As to which insurance issue he was addressing when asked:


Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy View Post
Except that the landlords are not getting paid for their lease to the charging companies.
Why you ask?

Because the general demand and usage is not up to the profitable level for the individual charging stations. Not all charging stations, but many charging stations.

Likewise, if you read up about Tesla vehicle insurance claims from the Tesla underwritten insurance, people are not getting their claims paid.

finance guy




Are you referring to the Geico kerfuffle?

I see Tesla Insurance is underwritten by State National Insurance Company and has an A financial strength rating from A.M.Best.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Larryandlinda

Too bad about Rivian’s stock drop and other setbacks.Their CEO is far more realistic than Musk. We are holding our devalued shares. We are delighted with their most tangible product, our first pickup in our 58 years of vehicles. After 19 months of waiting and 7 months of neglecting and abusing it, the conclusion is that it’s the greatest and most underpriced piece of machinery in which we have ever invested.
We suggested they raise the price, even on ours, ramp up production , and charge on.

Nice informative post. Nice to know that you like your electric P/U. Sounds like you purchased a piece of the future. Might be good to hold onto it as a future-classic vehicle. Might be worth a lot in the era of flying cars for your children.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by DAVES

Small people bite at the heels of the great. Musk, he has done the IMPOSSIBLE. Imagine he has built a car company-so many have failed. Space X, they are launching craft into space.
Our government has admitted you can do it better and cheaper than we can. The are recovering, rebuilding and reusing rocket parts. Simply AMAZING. No, I have never bought stock in either Tessler or bought BITCOIN.

Bingo! The hugely successful will always have their detractors, sometimes to the point of being venomous. Elon Musk is probably the best example of that.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Bingo! The hugely successful will always have their detractors, sometimes to the point of being venomous. Elon Musk is probably the best example of that.

Elon Mush is LESS of a hero to me than someone like Warren Buffet who avoided the New York power investor class and lived and worked in Omaha, Ne. He stayed in his original home (not a megamansion). He left his children ONLY enough $ so that they would be COMFORTABLE, but not rich and they would NOT get lazy. He has stated that the tax laws are more stringent for his secretary than for himself and that IS a problem that hurts the WHOLE country. He laughs about people like SB-F and anyone that would invest with him.

I feel that he has a similar attitude about tax law and the DESPERATE need to strengthen the middle class. He would be a good expert to comment on our "dumpster fire" question. People have different business HEROES and
I prefer mine.......Mr. Warren Buffet........a man for the ages.......there are very few his equal !!!!!!! Certainly not Jack Welsh or that crypto ding-a-ling.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Elon Mush is LESS of a hero to me than someone like Warren Buffet who avoided the New York power investor class and lived and worked in Omaha, Nb. He stayed in his original home (not a megamansion). He left his children ONLY enough $ so that they would be COMFORTABLE, but not rich and they would NOT get lazy. He has stated that the tax laws are more stringent for his secretary than for himself and that IS a problem that hurts the WHOLE country. He laughs about people like SB-F and anyone that would invest with him.

I feel that he has a similar attitude about tax law and the DESPERATE need to strengthen the middle class. He would be a good expert to comment on our "dumpster fire" question. People have different business HEROES and
I prefer mine.......Mr. Warren Buffet........a man for the ages.......there are very few his equal !!!!!!! Certainly not Jack Welsh or that crypto ding-a-ling.

At least Elon Musk would spell your name correctly. It’s strange to admire someone who made his money off the backs of genius and hard work of others versus the genius who has accomplished much and employed many. Is Elon perfect? No, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Another note, your hero, Warren Buffet, has been clamoring for years about helping the middle/lower class. This is a man who isn’t leaving his “wealth” to his kids and could easily have financed the elections to promote those who would change the tax laws. Please don’t cite the campaign donation limit since we all know the wealthy have loopholes. He’s changed nothing but it does keep detractors from piling on and his image pretty, doesn’t it?

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

"Land, gold, and silver" are nice to possess, but are difficult to carry around in your pocket. Or send to your niece in Oregon. They get translated to money / dollars , which get translated into a checking account. Then into a credit card. All for the purpose of convenient ECONOMIC transactions, without which there becomes basically no US economy. I don't think that we want that!
.......Owning land, gold, and silver is a GOOD idea as a hedge against inflation. But, the concept of MONEY has great importance!

You nailed it, the dollar is only a concept in which everyone must believe for it to be viable. Same as Bitcoin, only government isn’t involved, but they’re trying. I don’t own Bitcoin but I can see why most in the market hate it and other crypto currency. It could be their undoing if people give up their invested “dollar concept” for the “crypto concept”.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

At least Elon Musk would spell your name correctly. It’s strange to admire someone who made his money off the backs of genius and hard work of others versus the genius who has accomplished much and employed many. Is Elon perfect? No, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Another note, your hero, Warren Buffet, has been clamoring for years about helping the middle/lower class. This is a man who isn’t leaving his “wealth” to his kids and could easily have financed the elections to promote those who would change the tax laws. Please don’t cite the campaign donation limit since we all know the wealthy have loopholes. He’s changed nothing but it does keep detractors from piling on and his image pretty, doesn’t it?

I believe that Warren Buffett does give money toward elections. I am NOT so concerned that I would look up how much and to whom. I do know that his investment fund has a track record of beating the S +P in most years with almost 0 risk. Not sure what more he could do to avoid the few people that might criticize him.......walk on water?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

You nailed it, the dollar is only a concept in which everyone must believe for it to be viable. Same as Bitcoin, only government isn’t involved, but they’re trying. I don’t own Bitcoin but I can see why most in the market hate it and other crypto currency. It could be their undoing if people give up their invested “dollar concept” for the “crypto concept”.

I will say that at some point in the FUTURE, a cryptocurrency might prove useful. Everything EVOLVES and someday may replace credit cards. Whatever shape that would take, it would need government blessing and regulation. The Wild West was less than 2 decades long, yet it has been internalized by modern Americans as practically a Religion of Individuality. Today's cryptocurrency advocates seem to share that rugged INDIVIDUAL mentality from the past. Just like believing that ONLY jack Welsh could run GE. And ONLY Elon Musk could do what Musk has done (and singlehandedly without any staff help). Most every aspect of modern life demands groups working together, NOT individually.

Maybe if Musk had treated the workers at Twitter with some dignity and shown some class in his takeover.........maybe (?) I could have some respect for him. What he did at that Company is the kind of thing that FORCES some workers to become Unionized. And Jeff Bezos is doing the same thing. The German economy does fine with Unions - which helps Germany AVOID these "dumpster fires" that we are talking about in the US. It all goes back to the base question...... is the US strong and does it have a strong middle-class.

[Normal]

Tesla and Musk bought into Bitcoin a couple of years ago, but soured on the currency investment later on and sold it off before the crash. I’m not sure where your Musk assertion comes from? Currently the firm is into Dogecoin which is increasing its footing in the cryptocurrency market. Most companies he has invested in our blossoming beyond expectations. Space X has only upward prospects.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

One man's fallacy is another man's fact and most important American principle - that a STRONG middle class makes a STRONG COUNTRY. Today we have a STRONG upper-income class.......just like the ancient Romans had when Rome fell. We have outsourced our MIDDLE-CLASS to China. Now everyone can see that THEY are taking that STRONG middle class and flexing their muscle against BOTH the US and Taiwan. So, yes I do think that the legislative changes to the tax RATES put in place for the benefit of the upper class after the 1950s are DANGEROUS for the US and the world. I AM aware of it, most are not. Please allow me to have an OPINION!

The above paragraph relates the BASIS that has allowed people from Jack Welsh and the Koch brothers to Steve Jobs, Sam Bankman-Fried, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, AND OUR FAVORITE IN THIS CONVERSATION--------the wonderful ELON MUSK - to PULL from the US economy more riches than any South American DICTATOR possesses. I am NOT saying that those individuals do NOT deserve to earn/accumulate more riches than people in the middle class. It is a matter of degree. Japanese CEOs used to (and still may) be embarrassed to make more than 10 times what their average line worker makes. Musk and Zuckerberg make thousands of times more than their worker bees. That is the DEGREE and the problem of which I speak. I am NOT saying to change the American system - just to make it fairer and RESTORE the middle class which the upper class has outsourced to China and other countries.

When we talk about a "dumpster fire" that is BOTH Musk and SB-F........they are merely actors taking ADVANTAGE of their GREATER environment. The US economic environment in which most resources / money have drifted upward from the middle-class to the uber-upper class from 1950 to today. That is the REAL dumpster fire!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

One man's fallacy is another man's fact and most important American principle - that a STRONG middle class makes a STRONG COUNTRY. Today we have a STRONG upper-income class.......just like the ancient Romans had when Rome fell. We have outsourced our MIDDLE-CLASS to China. Now everyone can see that THEY are taking that STRONG middle class and flexing their muscle against BOTH the US and Taiwan. So, yes I do think that the legislative changes to the tax RATES put in place for the benefit of the upper class after the 1950s are DANGEROUS for the US and the world. I AM aware of it, most are not. Please allow me to have an OPINION!

Your OPINION is based on false information. As I've explained to you (and showed you the actual facts), several times, "the rich" in the 50's actually paid less of a percentage of their income in taxes as they do today. The 90% tax rate (that you continually point to) was a fallacy, due to the MASSIVE tax deductions available.

In the 50's, the middle class carried more of the tax burden than they do today,. and the poor paid more in taxes, where almost 50% of todays earners pay ZERO federal income tax...

As someone once said, you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are NOT entitled to your own facts...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I believe that Warren Buffett does give money toward elections. I am NOT so concerned that I would look up how much and to whom. I do know that his investment fund has a track record of beating the S +P in most years with almost 0 risk. Not sure what more he could do to avoid the few people that might criticize him.......walk on water?

I'm sure he does. He wanted to ensure the Keystone Pipeline was shut down...

Now why would he do that?, you may ask...

Because without the pipeline, the oil that was destined to carried via pipeline will now be carried by rail THAT HE OWNS... At a higher cost and higher risk and with more damage to the environment...

So very altruistic of him...

[tuccillo]

Before you criticize Elon Musk, please post your CV so we can see what you have accomplished in your working career. I am willing to bet it falls well short of Musk. You actually need a hero?

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Elon Mush is LESS of a hero to me than someone like Warren Buffet who avoided the New York power investor class and lived and worked in Omaha, Ne. He stayed in his original home (not a megamansion). He left his children ONLY enough $ so that they would be COMFORTABLE, but not rich and they would NOT get lazy. He has stated that the tax laws are more stringent for his secretary than for himself and that IS a problem that hurts the WHOLE country. He laughs about people like SB-F and anyone that would invest with him.

I feel that he has a similar attitude about tax law and the DESPERATE need to strengthen the middle class. He would be a good expert to comment on our "dumpster fire" question. People have different business HEROES and
I prefer mine.......Mr. Warren Buffet........a man for the ages.......there are very few his equal !!!!!!! Certainly not Jack Welsh or that crypto ding-a-ling.