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Electric vehicles achievable? Reality check?

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  #16  
Old 03-27-2022, 11:30 AM
Opengineer150 Opengineer150 is offline
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Didn’t we Liberate and occupy a country (Iraq) that produces roughly 4.4 million barrels a day ? So why can’t we buy or take their surplus…
  #17  
Old 03-27-2022, 11:32 AM
MartinSE MartinSE is offline
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Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 View Post
I'm not planning on buying an electric car. But I do understand that any change of major type takes time.
For example, once we lit our caves with fires and torches. Along came candles. Then oil lamps. Gas lights were common before electric lighting. Imagine the difficulties in converting a city from gas lighting to electric lighting. There were plenty of folks that found reasons why that was a waste of time and resources, too. Yet, it is what we all use today. Not every advance in technology is easy or universally accepted in its infancy, but, with persistence and improvements changes, progress takes place.
Again, I am not planning on buying an electric. It doesn't make sense in my life. But, in time, with advancements, electric vehicles of all sorts may become the norm, someday.
Agree, and remember, fire to candles took millions of years, candles to electric lights took thousands of years, incandescent electric lights to LED lights took a hundred years. Technology advances at an exponential rate.

It appears linear to us, but if you take any aspect of technology and trace it from it's origin to today, you will see this exponential nature

Take speed of transportation - walking on all fours, to walking and running upright (3mph average) Millions of years and we start riding horses. Tens of thousands of years and we get boats and wagons. Thousands of years and we get steam. Hundreds of year(s) and we get gas engines. How long for electric? Who knows.

There is abnormal obvious reason for this. Each step along the way uses the previous tech to help the next step. Once we got computers (and computer aided design) things really picked up the pace. Now, with AI design birthing, we can expect the computers to being making faster smarter, and better computers, which will then increase the advance of technology even faster.

We will see where this goes, but 15 years ago, cell phones were HUGE and dumb, now I wear one on my wrist, that is more powerful than the computers used to get us to the moon and back.

I think there is a chance if we don't destroy ourselves first, that we could switch to an electric based economy in 10 to 20 years.
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Old 03-27-2022, 11:33 AM
MartinSE MartinSE is offline
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Originally Posted by Opengineer150 View Post
Didn’t we Liberate and occupy a country (Iraq) that produces roughly 4.4 million barrels a day ? So why can’t we buy or take their surplus…
Hmm, maybe because it is not ours? But, we never let a little like that stop us. I mean, why not, isn't that what Putin is doing?
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Old 03-27-2022, 11:57 AM
CoachKandSportsguy CoachKandSportsguy is offline
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Default While I am not a believer in mass electric cars

This podcast with Barry Ritholtz and the Executive Director of Ford Electric Vehicles is very interesting as to why they are putting large efforts, or dollars, into that market.

Masters in Business: Darren Palmer on the EV Revolution (Podcast) on Apple Podcasts

The interesting point is the opinion of the current EV owners and how they are shaping what Ford believes currently as the future of EVs

skeptical but open minded guy
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Old 03-27-2022, 12:05 PM
MartinSE MartinSE is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy View Post
This podcast with Barry Ritholtz and the Executive Director of Ford Electric Vehicles is very interesting as to why they are putting large efforts, or dollars, into that market.

The interesting point is the opinion of the current EV owners and how they are shaping what Ford believes currently as the future of EVs

skeptical but open minded guy
So, you are saying they are listening to the market?
  #21  
Old 03-27-2022, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MartinSE View Post
So, you are saying some guy on the internet is smarter than GM engineers. That GM is plunging blindly forward into EVs without understand the issues?

That is really strange, one thing US automakers have NEVER been accused of (well, at least since the Edsel) is being rash in making decisions. One of the reasons Japan did so much damage to our auto industry is we wouldn't change production techniques and Japan was very innovative with statistical process control/engineering.

And even if GM is "smoking dope" and being stupid, then I guess every auto manufacturer in the world is too.
The Government Relations department at GM are telling upper level management that “like it or not” they will be forced to move to EV’s in the future. GM engineers are then being told by upper level management to focus on EV’s. The engineers aren’t focusing on EV’s because it’s superior technology, it’s because they are doing what their bosses tell them to do.
  #22  
Old 03-27-2022, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tophcfa View Post
The Government Relations department at GM are telling upper level management that “like it or not” they will be forced to move to EV’s in the future. GM engineers are then being told by upper level management to focus on EV’s. The engineers aren’t focusing on EV’s because it’s superior technology, it’s because they are doing what their bosses tell them to do.
Okay, I understand. And maybe you can clarify who maintains EVs are "superior" technology? Just asking, because I know I never said that. There are a LOT Of reasons I think we should change to EVs - being superior is not one of them.
  #23  
Old 03-27-2022, 12:35 PM
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The rest of the World is adopting renewable energy and electric vehicles

A shame that the USA, which used to be at the forefront of new technologies, is now dragging its heels and using whatever excuses it can to remain in the clutches of the oil and coal industries
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Old 03-27-2022, 12:36 PM
mtdjed mtdjed is offline
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Originally Posted by tophcfa View Post
The Government Relations department at GM are telling upper level management that “like it or not” they will be forced to move to EV’s in the future. GM engineers are then being told by upper level management to focus on EV’s. The engineers aren’t focusing on EV’s because it’s superior technology, it’s because they are doing what their bosses tell them to do.
I agree with the above. Unlike others, I believe that transition to Electric Vehicles can happen rather quickly. Government mandate and incentives can speed the conversion.

But that is the easy part. Battery technology will improve and support longer rides. But that neglects the requirement to generate the electricity to charge the EV batteries which is still highly dependent on fossil fuels.
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Old 03-27-2022, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Arctic Fox View Post
The rest of the World is adopting renewable energy and electric vehicles

A shame that the USA, which used to be at the forefront of new technologies, is now dragging its heels and using whatever excuses it can to remain in the clutches of the oil and coal industries
Yeah, around the 70's somehow the US decided it no longer wanted to be the leader in innovation... Sad.
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Old 03-27-2022, 12:39 PM
Stu from NYC Stu from NYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Arctic Fox View Post
The rest of the World is adopting renewable energy and electric vehicles

A shame that the USA, which used to be at the forefront of new technologies, is now dragging its heels and using whatever excuses it can to remain in the clutches of the oil and coal industries
Hopefully there are other technologies that will come along in the near future that will be superior to electric.

BTW does not seem the coal industry has all that much power these days.
  #27  
Old 03-27-2022, 12:49 PM
MartinSE MartinSE is offline
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Originally Posted by mtdjed View Post
I agree with the above. Unlike others, I believe that transition to Electric Vehicles can happen rather quickly. Government mandate and incentives can speed the conversion.

But that is the easy part. Battery technology will improve and support longer rides. But that neglects the requirement to generate the electricity to charge the EV batteries which is still highly dependent on fossil fuels.
Yup, not too long ago the government mandated seat belts. There was a LOT of heated disagreement and endless debates over all sorts of nonsense about them. Now 50 years later they have saved an estimated 500,000 lives and are averaging saving about 20,000 per year now, with having only reached 90% usage compliance. But, auto manufacturers spent(d) a lot of money lobbying and fighting the change.

The government mandating things, in my not so humble opinion, is the only way to get the predatory capitalists to change things so that their products are better for the people instead of better for their bank accounts.

Our auto industry is steeped in being very conservative when it comes to changes - they do not like to make any changes that are not necessary - Edsel was a learning experience.
  #28  
Old 03-27-2022, 01:01 PM
CoachKandSportsguy CoachKandSportsguy is offline
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Originally Posted by MartinSE View Post
So, you are saying they are listening to the market?
listen to the podcast yourself and make your own interpretation.

its just another information point for whatever you want to believe.

behavioral bias guy
  #29  
Old 03-27-2022, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu from NYC View Post
BTW does not seem the coal industry has all that much power these days.
You're right - for generating electricity, it has dropped from around 40% in 2014 to 20% today, largely as a result of being replaced by natural gas
  #30  
Old 03-27-2022, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MartinSE View Post
Well, there is a chicken and egg issue. But, I would say you have to have demand for EVs BEFORE you can afford to solve the issues you brought up.

Who do you think is going to invest the trillions of dollars to convert to an all electric economy if there are no customers?

Both have to happen - more or less at the same time.

And I don't know why you think no one is "aware" of the elephant in. the room (those problems). Every single company I have looked at are seriously working on those problems.

Chicken and Egg.
Don’t you mean no power??. Few fully electric vehicles are enjoying the not crowed charging points right now. add 10 or even hundreds of thousands and you just cant fill up in 10 minutes or so, you have to wait till there open charging point to even start the regeneration. Hybrid makes good sense IMO right now until there will be enough power generated and enough fast charging to satisfy demands when number explode?
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