Originally Posted by graciegirl

In Ohio we know that you can't close the barn door AFTER the horses get out.

So we just do nothing and watch people die

[kcrazorbackfan]

Banning assault weapons or implementing gun control will not stop these senseless, horrific shootings.

Training and arming teachers and administrators along with manning and securing entry points to where a person has to swipe an ID to enter will stop these mentally ill cowards from committing these horrific acts.

[Steve9930]

One of the things that always comes to the surface in these incidents is "Someone Knew". This case is no different and the other is there is more misinformation then truth used in the arguments. There is a lot of gut reaction to the incident which never arrives to a real solution. In this case we need to stick with the School Shooting. This evening Bill O'Reilly had three good points: 1) The legal age to buy any firearm should be 21 not 18. (There are brain development reasons why.), 2) We should have multiple security officers and locked doors during class. 3) There should be a watch list for people that have exhibited behavior such as this young man. I could not disagree on any of these points.

Something else he brought up. The number of shootings in a given year since 1999 has decreased dramatically. From over 600 thousand in 1999, to 70 thousand. Don't remember which year for the 70 thousand number. The facts are shootings have been decreasing many fold since 1999. So there is progress.

The main stream Media would make you believe there were 18 school shootings this year. When you analyze that data presented its misrepresented. They would also try to make you believe that the NRA gets its power from donations to Politicians. Another misconception. The NRA gets its power from its ability to mobilize the voters in the field. They don't give as much money to Washington then others would make you believe.

Bill also had a physiologist that was there on scene. He went over the trouble this young man had in his life. One Thing he said which I agree is, "Social Media is the Gasoline that lights the fire of these people".

Bill's podcast tonight was so right on target I've written him to ask if he would make it available to everyone not just premium members. I have also attached a link to the data on school shootings. These are facts that cover time, shooting, casualties, weapons used all the way back to the 1800s.

If you think guns will go away they will not. There will be no ban from Washington. However States do have the power to regulate weapons for public safety. You could see more state regulations. They do have the power and this is where the solutions should come. What ever these regulation criminals will always be armed. Its why they are criminals.

Here is the data on school shootings:
School shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Copied and pasted from post #12 by mscocco, who editied his post after seeing mine.

Last edited by mscocco; Today at 04:01 PM.

If that's what happened (without putting the post in quotes like I've just done, it's hard to tell for those of us who didn't see it in real time), then it was obviously a simple typo...as I seriously doubt they believed it was "per second."

Simple typos happen, like you saying it was post #12...when it was actually post #17.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

One of the things that always comes to the surface in these incidents is "Someone Knew". This case is no different and the other is there is more misinformation then truth used in the arguments. There is a lot of gut reaction to the incident which never arrives to a real solution. In this case we need to stick with the School Shooting. This evening Bill O'Reilly had three good points: 1) The legal age to buy any firearm should be 21 not 18. (There are brain development reasons why.), 2) We should have multiple security officers and locked doors during class. 3) There should be a watch list for people that have exhibited behavior such as this young man. I could not disagree on any of these points.

Something else he brought up. The number of shootings in a given year since 1999 has decreased dramatically. From over 600 thousand in 1999, to 70 thousand. Don't remember which year for the 70 thousand number. The facts are shootings have been decreasing many fold since 1999. So there is progress.

The main stream Media would make you believe there were 18 school shootings this year. When you analyze that data presented its misrepresented. They would also try to make you believe that the NRA gets its power from donations to Politicians. Another misconception. The NRA gets its power from its ability to mobilize the voters in the field. They don't give as much money to Washington then others would make you believe.

Bill also had a physiologist that was there on scene. He went over the trouble this young man had in his life. One Thing he said which I agree is, "Social Media is the Gasoline that lights the fire of these people".

Bill's podcast tonight was so right on target I've written him to ask if he would make it available to everyone not just premium members. I have also attached a link to the data on school shootings. These are facts that cover time, shooting, casualties, weapons used all the way back to the 1800s.

If you think guns will go away they will not. There will be no ban from Washington. However States do have the power to regulate weapons for public safety. You could see more state regulations. They do have the power and this is where the solutions should come. What ever these regulation criminals will always be armed. Its why they are criminals.

Here is the data on school shootings:
School shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

I think it's pretty clear that the statement of 17 (revised from 18) "shootings" is factually correct...given that every firearm discharge could hurt someone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/flor...8-in-2018.html

The attack on Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, is the 17th U.S. school shooting within the first 45 days of the year, according to Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control advocacy organization.

Everytown has been tracking shootings in schools and universities since 2013. It reports any time a firearm is discharged within a school building or on campus, whether accidentally or intentionally and whether or not anyone has been harmed.

[ColdNoMore]

If anyone is interested, here's the list of the "shootings" that are tracked.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/here...eaks-down.html

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

I think it's pretty clear that the statement of 17 (revised from 18) "shootings" is factually correct...given that every firearm discharge could hurt someone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/flor...8-in-2018.html

Washington Post: No, there haven’t been 18 school shootings so far this year. That number is flat out wrong

Just five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Another three appeared to be intentional shootings but didn’t hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Well stated.

The other important thing that some people have a problem grasping is that the KKK is only one....of many hate/white supremacist groups.

In fact, the SPLC has identified almost 1,000 different 'hate' groups.

And the focus of these groups hate, runs the gamut from religion to skin color to yes...even politics (regardless of which side of the aisle one stands).


Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center


In this latest atrocity, one has to ask how someone who is three years away from legally purchasing alcohol...can legally buy a weapon that is primarily meant for only one purpose?

The SPLC Hate Map distorts reality by counting each individual chapter of a hate group, rather than just the collective organization, a practice first implemented in 1997 and which sends the tally upwards. The National Socialist Movement, for example, is listed 49 times in the SPLC’s 2015 Hate Map, rather than just once since the count includes each one of the NSM’s individual chapters.

Hate crimes plummeted 24% between 1998 and 2013, according to the FBI. Yet the SPLC claims the number of hate groups in the U.S. shot up by 75% during this same period.


And the “haters” on SPLC’s list are almost entirely on the right. “I think there’s a common misunderstanding about the way you get on our Hate List,” said Heidi Beirich, Intelligence Project director at SPLC. “We post groups on the basis of ideology, not whether they’re violent or not.

In early 2014, the FBI deleted the SPLC as a resource listed on its Hate Crime web page. It acted after 15 pro-family groups, including Liberty Counsel, notified Attorney General Eric Holder and FBI Director James Comey of the SPLC’s role in facilitating an act of domestic terrorism and urged them to distance the FBI from the group.

In 2016, the U.S. Department of Justice, under President Obama, sharply rebuked and reprimanded attorneys representing the SPLC and its allies for employing the SPLC's "hate group" label to denigrate a conservative advocacy group. A letter from the Justice Department’s Office of General Counsel concluded that employing the label against groups with which it disagrees "overstepped the bounds of zealous advocacy and was unprofessional." It continued that such behavior is "uncivil" and "constitutes frivolous behavior and does not aid the administration of justice.

"meant for one purpose" You don't know much about guns. Most popular round the AR 15 is chambered for is .223. Less powerful than a 30-06 and not even legal for hunting deer in some states. AR does not mean Assault Rifle, its from Armalite, the original designer. Hunters like the AR 15 because it is lightweight, easy to disassemble and clean, and very reliable. Yes they come in a black, scary tactical look but you can get them in pink as well. The M16 is military version, fully automatic, chambered in 5.56 and definitely designed with one purpose, killing enemy soldiers fast.

PS There are more than 16 million of them out there, good luck with outlawing them.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

The SPLC Hate Map distorts reality by counting each individual chapter of a hate group, rather than just the collective organization, a practice first implemented in 1997 and which sends the tally upwards. The National Socialist Movement, for example, is listed 49 times in the SPLC’s 2015 Hate Map, rather than just once since the count includes each one of the NSM’s individual chapters.

Hate crimes plummeted 24% between 1998 and 2013, according to the FBI. Yet the SPLC claims the number of hate groups in the U.S. shot up by 75% during this same period.


And the “haters” on SPLC’s list are almost entirely on the right. “I think there’s a common misunderstanding about the way you get on our Hate List,” said Heidi Beirich, Intelligence Project director at SPLC. “We post groups on the basis of ideology, not whether they’re violent or not.

In early 2014, the FBI deleted the SPLC as a resource listed on its Hate Crime web page. It acted after 15 pro-family groups, including Liberty Counsel, notified Attorney General Eric Holder and FBI Director James Comey of the SPLC’s role in facilitating an act of domestic terrorism and urged them to distance the FBI from the group.

In 2016, the U.S. Department of Justice, under President Obama, sharply rebuked and reprimanded attorneys representing the SPLC and its allies for employing the SPLC's "hate group" label to denigrate a conservative advocacy group. A letter from the Justice Department’s Office of General Counsel concluded that employing the label against groups with which it disagrees "overstepped the bounds of zealous advocacy and was unprofessional." It continued that such behavior is "uncivil" and "constitutes frivolous behavior and does not aid the administration of justice.

"meant for one purpose" You don't know much about guns. Most popular round the AR 15 is chambered for is .223. Less powerful than a 30-06 and not even legal for hunting deer in some states. AR does not mean Assault Rifle, its from Armalite, the original designer. Hunters like the AR 15 because it is lightweight, easy to disassemble and clean, and very reliable. Yes they come in a black, scary tactical look but you can get them in pink as well.

PS There are more than 16 million of them out there, good luck with outlawing them.

LOL

Here's the actual story.

No, The FBI Hasn't Ditched The Southern Poverty Law Center

But the claim that the FBI is ending its relationship, or even its website's relationship, with SPLC in response to right-wing outrage is false. As Good As You's Jeremy Hooper noted, the FBI continues to list SPLC as a partner in the fight against hate crimes on its website.

"Upon review, the Civil Rights program only provides links to resources within the federal government," an FBI spokesman told The Daily Caller. "While we appreciate the tremendous support we receive from a variety of organizations, we have elected not to identify those groups on the civil rights page."

And as far as 'hate groups' in general...the key word is 'group.'

In other words, it is just those people who have decided to get together with the like-minded...in a formal group.

It obviously doesn't take into account the multiples (thousands? tens of thousands? millions?) of those individuals who 'share that same hate'...but simply don't join a group.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

One big roadblock to an honest discussion....NRA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There are estimated 5 million NRA members and they only represent about 7% of the gun owners in the country. Most gun owners could care less about the NRA. They control gun owners and politicians by FEAR and brainwashing gun owners to believe their guns are going to be confiscated by the Government if ANY guns such as AR-15 are no longer sold. Give the NRA credit....they have done a remarkable job getting their viewpoints across to the public.

School children and adults continue to die because a few control the actions (or non-Action) of the silent majority of gun owners in America. “However beautiful the strategy, occasionally you should look at the results”. Winston Churchill

[GoodLife]

Here's the actual story.

No, The FBI Hasn't Ditched The Southern Poverty Law Center

"we have elected not to identify those groups on the civil rights page."

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by justjim

There are estimated 5 million NRA members and they only represent about 7% of the gun owners in the country. Most gun owners could care less about the NRA. They control gun owners and politicians by FEAR and brainwashing gun owners to believe their guns are going to be confiscated by the Government if ANY guns such as AR-15 are no longer sold. Give the NRA credit....they have done a remarkable job getting their viewpoints across to the public.

School children and adults continue to die because a few control the actions (or non-Action) of the silent majority of gun owners in America. “However beautiful the strategy, occasionally you should look at the results”. Winston Churchill

No question about it, spreading fear (even if it's false)... works.

Whether it is about confiscating guns, or about others who look/pray/act/etc.....differently than ourselves.

[8notes]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Unfortunately, too many politicians are beholden to the NRA to make a needed change.



Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

Thank you. Good post. The problem is not the gun itself, its the high capacity magazines that allow the shooter to fire off 30 rounds and more without stopping. If you claim to need that type of setup for hunting you must be a really bad shot. Outlaw the high volume magazines, and you would automatically cut down on the number of people killed, because the shooter would have to stop more frequently to reload. The AR 15 used in this shooting is legal in Florida without even having a license, with no waiting period. That is insane. I'm a second amendments supporter but I think the existing laws are unreasonable.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

No question about it, spreading fear (even if it's false)... works.

Whether it is about confiscating guns, or about others who look/pray/act/etc.....differently than ourselves.

Yep...seems the only fear that does not incite action is the fear of children having their young bodies torn apart by an AR 15.

Then, despite all pleas...politics clicks in.

As I said yesterday.....we have had 18 shootings in just 2 months....nothing. If we had 18 Cessna's crash, special session, and an passionate speech., and aviation laws passed.

People are more concerned about their individual rights than the greater good. The second amendment gives them a right to own a gun and so they are going to have one. The first amendment gives them a right to say hateful things and so they are going to do it. Americans are a very entitled people, just as we are viewed by the rest of the world. The only way this will change is if enough people contact their politicians and vote out those who are resistant. There is no logical reason for people to need an AR-15 other than ego or mayhem.