[Bucco]

Originally Posted by karostay

When you look at ALL our politicians news media I mean all everyone.
They set no example for today's youth.
They conduct themselves like bullies with demeaning and demoralizing conduct and when an incident of this magnitude occurs they say .
They look at each other like deer in a headlight and say
What could possibly make an individual act in such a manor ?

THANK YOU.

Glad someone agrees with me.

We live in a time where being mean spirited is considered a good thing, where being immoral and offensive is defended.

We attack, not listen and be empathetic and appreciative. We simply will not acknowledge bad behavior. This thread has shown that side far too many times. And reading the indictments against the Russians makes the point....they know how we are and play to it and we keep on allowing it.

This is our society now, and I see no movement other than it getting worse after the last 24 hours.

Kids learn from listening and watching and they will emulate.

These kids are now demonstrating but my guess it is falling on deaf ears. It does no serve our elected officials to be empathetic. It is a terrible terrible tragedy and as I was told clearly yesterday on here.....making our elected officials speak up in a public hearing will do not good.

There are so many sides to this story...the fall down by the FBI, the fall down by various Florida agencies, by the school officials but all we hear is the politics of it.

With the discussion on news yesterday, I did a quick survey of my own last night and this morning....on network doing montages of the victims....on network discussing the politics of gun control and one networks sounded like RT.

Our children deserve so much better....so very much better.

May God protect all our future leaders who today are children...may they shed the bad actions of those passing them selves as role models and find a role model that will lead them to good and positive things. I always prefer to see the good and those kids speaking on behalf of the others are potential leaders are GOOD. May they find a way to turn this tragedy into a good thing

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by billethkid

As long as political identity continues to be the priority, there will be no more done after this shooting fades, than there has been for all the others.

The political agendas, special interests and minority priorities are all stacked against making any progress.
Until or unless that changes, there will be no progress made. It is the elephant in the room that everybody pretends is not there.

Parkland is a rather well off place from what I gather that has people with a lot of connections. I still think this will be an important development with the kids, teachers and others getting involved with marches. And it looks like it is international thanks to Facebook, Tweeter and whatever the kids in 2018 are using to communicate with one another. They seem to find something new quite often.

The lobbyists are always a problem. But then something happens like with the tobacco lobby. Tobacco politics - Wikipedia They have had quiet victories though after various defeats.

[graciegirl]

Giving your views to other people and marching never changes a damn thing other than ****ing off people who will never agree with you.. You can be an example of your beliefs and you can vote. Oh, And you can decide where to spend your money.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Giving your views to other people and marching never changes a damn thing other than ****ing off people who will never agree with you.. You can be an example of your beliefs and you can vote. Oh, And you can decide where to spend your money.

Those who now have equal rights (like using bathrooms etc) or women who now can vote are two quick examples that show how this country has had marches and it successfully worked.

This is not a kingdom.

And if we find a way, or even just DISCUSS how to protect our precious voting, that might help, but those who can call it fake.

Exchanging views, and protesting with free speech USED TO BE SOMETHING REAL AMERICANS treasured.

[Taltarzac725]

How Marches in Washington Have Shaped America - The New York Times

These Parkland kids will try marches and if that does not work, something else.

Marches have played a very important role in US society.

[Taltarzac725]

We will see if there is any change from the efforts of the Parkland kids, their teachers and I assume the many celebrities and politicians who will get involved with this. The media will also play a very important role on how they cover these marches.

Marching is probably one of the most important rights of the average American.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Giving your views to other people and marching never changes a damn thing other than ****ing off people who will never agree with you.. You can be an example of your beliefs and you can vote. Oh, And you can decide where to spend your money.

Got it...you said it twice.

Do not express your views....do not march or express those views in public.

Voting is ok, but that is a bit tainted by a foreign government interfering in that process.

I think these kids, and grieving parents have a right to "express their views to other people" and certainly to march and utilize free speech

[DeanFL]

As I said before, I am NOT a proponent of marches or boycotts... BUT in this case... I DO agree that ANYTHING to get our 'Leaders" attention to act, hopefully in a righteous manner, will be a positive thing. I think that this will gather huge momentum among impressionable <20 youth and 20-30 age group, and spread to colleges as well. And kids will probably implore to their parents, and build onward. Bottom line - this could grow to a huge VOTING block in 2018 and 2020 and the DC, State, and Local folks will HAVE TO take notice and do something. Hopefully NOT simply ongoing investigations, committees, meetings, and delays.
We already know 3 important facts from this event>
1. The FBI requires a systemic improvement and closed-loop systems for "say something" escalated to them. They CANNOT allow 'slip-thru-the-cracks and errors.
2. Same as #1 for Schools, Local, and State agencies.
3. He bought the weapon LEGALLY even with suspect background/behaviors.

I do not see this one slipping away from the forefront as in the past. momentum will/should continue to ensure some proper action to close holes in the system. Again, noting will be 100%, but minimize the chances of copycats et al.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Got it...you said it twice.

Do not express your views....do not march or express those views in public.

Voting is ok, but that is a bit tainted by a foreign government interfering in that process.

I think these kids, and grieving parents have a right to "express their views to other people" and certainly to march and utilize free speech

DO NOT PARAPHRASE WHAT I WROTE!

I do not believe that any post on this thread has changed anyone's mind or their views about anything. It may have reinforced views they had and made them more outraged about the short sightedness of others. I think marching makes the marcher feel better but it doesn't sway the non marcher.

The freedom of speech is important and sacred to all of us. The Pen is mightier than the sword. Part of grieving is anger. For many thinkers, who and what to be angry at is the issue. One person caused this horrible thing to happen and I know not one person who would have enabled him.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by DeanFL

As I said before, I am NOT a proponent of marches or boycotts... BUT in this case... I DO agree that ANYTHING to get our 'Leaders" attention to act, hopefully in a righteous manner, will be a positive thing. I think that this will gather huge momentum among impressionable <20 youth and 20-30 age group, and spread to colleges as well. And kids will probably implore to their parents, and build onward. Bottom line - this could grow to a huge VOTING block in 2018 and 2020 and the DC, State, and Local folks will HAVE TO take notice and do something. Hopefully NOT simply ongoing investigations, committees, meetings, and delays.
We already know 3 important facts from this event>
1. The FBI requires a systemic improvement and closed-loop systems for "say something" escalated to them. They CANNOT allow 'slip-thru-the-crack's and errors.
2. Same as #1 for Schools, Local, and State agencies.
3. He bought the weapon LEGALLY even with suspect background/behaviors.

I do not see this one slipping away from the forefront as in the past. momentum will/should continue to ensure some proper action to close pen holes in the system. Again, noting will be 100%, but minimize the chances of copycats et al.

Good post

I have nothing against peaceful demonstrations but the way they have gone lately is sideways and end up with violence and destruction. There now has to be a large police presence at each. Some of the major contributors have started threatening to withdraw donations and if enough people contacted their legislators and expressed their views it would be far more effective. We somehow have to make it painful for our politicians to do nothing and worrisome that they will not get re-elected.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

DO NOT PARAPHRASE WHAT I WROTE!

I do not believe that any post on this thread has changed anyone's mind or their views about anything. It may have reinforced views they had and made them more outraged about the short sightedness of others. I think marching makes the marcher feel better but it doesn't sway the non marcher.

The freedom of speech is important and sacred to all of us. The Pen is mightier than the sword. Part of grieving is anger. For many thinkers, who and what to be angry at is the issue. One person caused this horrible thing to happen and I know not one person who would have enabled him.

I hope expression of views of national or international issues are simply not aimed at TOTV for some reason other than the reason for the forum.

Marching has a tremendous effect, and always had through history. Ignoring them has an effect also.

Sorry if I misunderstood...I certainly did not paraphrase anything you said.

One thing I agree with is the vote. I hope SOON, we will "counterattack" the attack on our voting by Russians. Reading the indictments, which are simply a precursor to many more, was chilling. Voting is our way of showing our preferences.

But it is in deep jeopardy because, while 99% of this country (elected and non elected) agree we need to protect it, those who count don't think there was a problem. Thus, while younare correct, it is the way, nothing is being done at all, or even being discussed, to protect it.

The children should march, protest, scream and whatever. Someday...someone will assign responsibility and our leaders will openly be required to take a stand on guns, mental health, and things like protecting our country from foreign powers interfering with that voting you speak of. Now we have nothing but Twitter and daily doses.

This gun issue is not new, just ignored. Same goes for many others, including mental health. I was honored to play a role in the Mental Health/Mental Retardation movement in Pennsylvania which resulted in the act pass in 1966, and we still don't get it.

I will not believe our country is numb to all of this.

Let those children raise hell

Originally Posted by Bucco

If you read the indictments, and every American should, opposing rallies arranged in the same place at the same time, and duped Americans went along.

I fear for this country....we are being played and being split

Exactly, this is why I fear for the safety of these kids since there are so many mentally unstable individuals wanting to do harm and staging counter rallies is a fine way to do it. People get fueled by the crowd mentality and things get out of hand.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by fw102807

Exactly, this is why I fear for the safety of these kids since there are so many mentally unstable individuals wanting to do harm and staging counter rallies is a fine way to do it. People get fueled by the crowd mentality and things get out of hand.

You make a valid point.

It takes guts to be "out there" for something you believe in.

I just want my country to wake up and admit we are and have been under attack and stop helping those who are successfully tearing us apart from afar.

We sometimes seem to use their own tactics on our own country.
Look, it's not just me...the world sees it. This country is on edge almost daily....one side says nothing is happening and attacks those who feel we are under attack and who want to defend us,
.

That has an effect on the people who live in this country.

But the issue are these children and I think they need to be heard.

I also add, and mostly criticized for, saying it needs to be PUBLIC hearings....we and they need to hear from people not reading from scripts and hopefully capture how they really feel.

If the NRA is this powerful, we need to bottle that power. I do not own a gun....I do not understand guns much, and "have no dog in the fight", but these kids and parents have a right to ask people questions and get answers.

If not, clock ticks until the next person sneaks under the State, FBI, etc net which is largely and thankfully successful in stopping these things , and away we will go with more of what I am beginning to think is intentional dragging of feet

[cologal]

I like a movement that has started after this shooting.

People are sending checks to the politicians which are made out with THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS instead of money.