[Bucco]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Lets see

Broward County Sheriff’s Office were called to this this kid's home 39 times in 7 years, included “mentally ill person,” “child/elderly abuse,” “domestic disturbance” and “missing person,”

He posts photos of himself with guns and knives on Instagram, makes threats

FBI gets tipped on him twice, youtube comment "I'm going to be a professional school shooter." Uses real name. 2nd time they were notified exactly who he is, The FBI acknowledged that a person close to Cruz had called in warning about Cruz's desire to kill. FBI does not follow up.

We don't need better gun laws, we need better law enforcement.

You certainly have the right to throw blame for this on the FBI. They sure did screw up, and if you feel this is on them, so be it.

I look at the FBI as extremely brave hero's in this country.

I would not consider demeaning a police officer, a department of law enforcement for human error. This was a terrible oversight it appears....admitted to and investigation begun.

I will still think of our FBI as hero's who have deterred so many terrorist attacks or shootings, without even a blip in the news.

They are still, without a doubt, my heroes.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You certainly have the right to throw blame for this on the FBI. They sure did screw up, and if you feel this is on them, so be it.

I look at the FBI as extremely brave hero's in this country.

I would not consider demeaning a police officer, a department of law enforcement for human error. This was a terrible oversight it appears....admitted to and investigation begun.

I will still think of our FBI as hero's who have deterred so many terrorist attacks or shootings, without even a blip in the news.

They are still, without a doubt, my heroes.

Exactly.

While it is definitely appropriate to do an in-depth analysis on what went wrong in this case, the plethora of attacks/atrocities that the FBI has quietly thwarted...cannot be overlooked.

The real problem is what can be done with/to someone like this, before they've actually done anything illegal...without violating their rights?

THAT conundrum...will be the hardest to solve.

[autumnspring]

Originally Posted by PersonalChoice

These shootings happen in gun-free zones. Teachers and school staff should be allowed to conceal carry in schools, after they obtain the proper training. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. My thoughts and prayers are for all those affected by this horrific event in Broward County.

Some YOU,suggest teachers should be armed.

I DON'T KNOW but were it to be implemented. What would that teach the kids. Some people posting on this thread would object to it. Even if it was put into effect, would a teacher be prepared to pull the trigger or would they assume if they pull out a gun the perpetrator would after shooting some people, some kids, simply give up.

For that matter, in what just happened. Does anyone believe the shooter would not have grabbed a kid and used him as a shield?.

As stated, a simple solution does not exist.

I expect the defense will argue the shooter is insane. He is 19. We will need to keep him in prison for as long as 80 years at a current cost of ????? 100,000 a year.

Can we, can I, accept that a sane person is capable of this unfathomable act?

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You certainly have the right to throw blame for this on the FBI. They sure did screw up, and if you feel this is on them, so be it.

I look at the FBI as extremely brave hero's in this country.

I would not consider demeaning a police officer, a department of law enforcement for human error. This was a terrible oversight it appears....admitted to and investigation begun.

I will still think of our FBI as hero's who have deterred so many terrorist attacks or shootings, without even a blip in the news.

They are still, without a doubt, my heroes.

Try selling that to the parents of dead kids. I expect we will be hearing about some lawsuits shortly.

This isn't the first mass shooter the FBI has missed in Florida.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by suesiegel

Some YOU,suggest teachers should be armed.

I DON'T KNOW but were it to be implemented. What would that teach the kids. Some people posting on this thread would object to it. Even if it was put into effect, would a teacher be prepared to pull the trigger or would they assume if they pull out a gun the perpetrator would after shooting some people, some kids, simply give up.

For that matter, in what just happened. Does anyone believe the shooter would not have grabbed a kid and used him as a shield?.

As stated, a simple solution does not exist.

I expect the defense will argue the shooter is insane. He is 19. We will need to keep him in prison for as long as 80 years at a current cost of ????? 100,000 a year.

Can we, can I, accept that a sane person is capable of this unfathomable act?

Certainly would change the curriculum for teacher education.

I still think the politics should go away, and there should be a public congressional hearing on any practical gun law solutions, and also the handling of these mental problems within the schools, which is probably the most difficult to solve of the two.

I realize the long arm of NRA money and influence...that is why PUBLIC hearings are important. Allow everyone to see and hear.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Try selling that to the parents of dead kids. I expect we will be hearing about some lawsuits shortly.

This isn't the first mass shooter the FBI has missed in Florida.

You know, your issue with the FBI is noted. I will look for your comments on any individual police error that occurs, and check with you as the FBI saves so many lives. This, to me, is more political than anything.

I assure you...it was a serious admission....it has been admitted to and not covered....seemed to have identifies the WHY, and there will be consequences.

Would it not be great if all aspects of the government were that open, honest and straight forward ?

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You know, your issue with the FBI is noted. I will look for your comments on any individual police error that occurs, and check with you as the FBI saves so many lives. This, to me, is more political than anything.

I assure you...it was a serious admission....it has been admitted to and not covered....seemed to have identifies the WHY, and there will be consequences.

Would it not be great if all aspects of the government were that open, honest and straight forward ?

Your issue with defending the FBI no matter how grave their errors is also duly noted. The facts are is that about one month before the massacre, somebody who knew Cruz called the FBI to report "Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting."

You can't get a better tip than that. They were handed this guy on a platter.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Your issue with defending the FBI no matter how grave their errors is also duly noted. The facts are is that about one month before the massacre, somebody who knew Cruz called the FBI to report "Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting."

You can't get a better tip than that. They were handed this guy on a platter.

I have never defended this error, so insure when you put words in mouth, you are accurate.

I, and everyone else acknowledge the mistake, including the FBI..in less than 24 hour...facts is they were on the phone to the person who reported the incident within hours. They admitted it openly and publicly.....they are doing thourough investigation.

I suppose they could have called the report a hoax, and attacked those reporting it, but they didn't.

Someone will pay. They are still my hero and you cannot diminish that because...well, you just cannot.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Your issue with defending the FBI no matter how grave their errors is also duly noted. The facts are is that about one month before the massacre, somebody who knew Cruz called the FBI to report "Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting."

You can't get a better tip than that. They were handed this guy on a platter.

And besides knocking on his door and talking to him, the FBI could have legally done what...that would have stopped him from doing what he did?

[Moderator]

This thread has persisted in turning into a discussion of news reporting bias/accuracy. If you wish to discuss that topic, without political comments or references, you must start a new thread on that topic. This thread is to discuss the school shooting and potential solutions to safeguard citizens from such violence. Further off topic posts will cause this thread to be closed. It’s up to you whether it stays open or not.

Moderator

Originally Posted by Bucco

Perchance, the moderator will allow a conversation on factual reporting, I would like to add this as a result of analyzing the indictments of the Russians. These are not my words, but those of Evan Osnos who wrote a great pice in the New Yorker on these indictments and their meaning...
---------------------
"The power of news illiteracy. At the heart of the Russian fraud is an essential, embarrassing insight into American life: large numbers of Americans are ill-equipped to assess the credibility of the things they read. The willingness to believe purported news stories, often riddled with typos or coming from unfamiliar outlets, is a liability of today’s fragmented media and polarized politics. Even the trolls themselves were surprised at what Americans would believe. According to the indictment, in September, 2017, once U.S. authorities had begun to crack down on the fraud, one of the defendants, Irina Viktorovna Kaverzina, e-mailed a family member, saying, “We had a slight crisis here at work: the FBI busted our activity (not a joke). So, I got preoccupied with covering tracks together with the colleagues.” She went on, “I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people.”
-----------------------
We Americans seem to simply accept what we want to accept and the truth of the matter, or validity of facts is ignored.

Then to know these same people are entering into the fray concerning our children dying.

It has been chilling to hear so called Americans discussing what these indictments actually mean...the simply reinforce what the Russians already know about us.

I would once again urge people to read "The Whole Truth" by David Baldacci which illustrates just how easy it is to pass off fake news and have it be entirely credible and believable to the point of starting another cold war. It was a very chilling and enlightening book.

Sorry Moderator, I posted this before your post appeared on my page.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by suesiegel

Some YOU,suggest teachers should be armed.

I DON'T KNOW but were it to be implemented. What would that teach the kids. Some people posting on this thread would object to it. Even if it was put into effect, would a teacher be prepared to pull the trigger or would they assume if they pull out a gun the perpetrator would after shooting some people, some kids, simply give up.

For that matter, in what just happened. Does anyone believe the shooter would not have grabbed a kid and used him as a shield?.

As stated, a simple solution does not exist.

I expect the defense will argue the shooter is insane. He is 19. We will need to keep him in prison for as long as 80 years at a current cost of ????? 100,000 a year.

Can we, can I, accept that a sane person is capable of this unfathomable act?

What it teaches the kids is that we have to be responsible for protecting ourselves. It also shows that the teachers care enough about them to be willing to protect them. There is an armed officer assigned to Parkland High School but was on the other side of the school when this event took place. It's likely that this shooter knew where the officer would be.

I would actually make it a requirement of the job that teachers and administrators be trained, licensed and armed when on school property. What that would do is discourage most people who have any idea of shooting up a school from actually acting on that idea. It would also minimize the damage should someone try.

Yes, it's possible that the shooter could grab a kid and use him as a shield. Would that be any worse than what happened? Nothing is perfect, but we see what happens in gun free zones when a person decides to kill people. At least with armed school employees, there would be a chance.

You can talk about banning guns all you want. It'snot going to happen. You can talk about changing the culture, good luck with that. You can have all the drills you want, but they're not going to prevent anyone from doing what this guy did. You can encourage "if you see something, say something" all day long. It's not a bad thing, but as we saw Wednesday, a lot of people saw something and said something and nothing was done about it.

We have armed police protecting our citizens. We have armed guards protecting our money. We have armed secret service agents protecting our politicians, but evidently, for some people, our children are not important enough to have armed people protecting.

I doubt that the perpetrator will use the insanity defense. His lawyer already said that he knew what he was doing and is remorseful. In order to prove insanity, it has to be demonstrated that the defendant was not aware of the results of his actions or that he didn't know right from wrong. This guy knew what he was doing and hopefully will get a needle in the arm soon. I understand that he plans to plead guilty in order to avoid the death penalty. If I were the prosecutor, I wouldn't accpet that deal.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

And besides knocking on his door and talking to him, the FBI could have legally done what...that would have stopped him from doing what he did?

Hence a need for change is required to meet the times!!

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

What it teaches the kids is that we have to be responsible for protecting ourselves. It also shows that the teachers care enough about them to be willing to protect them. There is an armed officer assigned to Parkland High School but was on the other side of the school when this event took place. It's likely that this shooter knew where the officer would be.

I would actually make it a requirement of the job that teachers and administrators be trained, licensed and armed when on school property. What that would do is discourage most people who have any idea of shooting up a school from actually acting on that idea. It would also minimize the damage should someone try.

Yes, it's possible that the shooter could grab a kid and use him as a shield. Would that be any worse than what happened? Nothing is perfect, but we see what happens in gun free zones when a person decides to kill people. At least with armed school employees, there would be a chance.

You can talk about banning guns all you want. It'snot going to happen. You can talk about changing the culture, good luck with that. You can have all the drills you want, but they're not going to prevent anyone from doing what this guy did. You can encourage "if you see something, say something" all day long. It's not a bad thing, but as we saw Wednesday, a lot of people saw something and said something and nothing was done about it.

We have armed police protecting our citizens. We have armed guards protecting our money. We have armed secret service agents protecting our politicians, but evidently, for some people, our children are not important enough to have armed people protecting.

Or mebbe not.