[huge-pigeons]

Why would anybody want to live in the lawless states like MN, CA, NY, NJ, IL, and others? You get what you vote for, and the residents of these states deserve every bit of this mess.
Also, it’s not the villages that have laws to put criminals away, it’s Florida and its administration. If Florida was a lawless state too, you think the villages would escape this mess? We would be hit more because you know, it’s the old folks community!

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Blueblaze

Arresting shoplifters used to work pretty good. Maybe we ought to try that again.

Hate thieves. Shoot 'em all. Let God sort 'em out. 😬🤠☹️

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by huge-pigeons

Why would anybody want to live in the lawless states like MN, CA, NY, NJ, IL, and others? You get what you vote for, and the residents of these states deserve every bit of this mess.
Also, it’s not the villages that have laws to put criminals away, it’s Florida and its administration. If Florida was a lawless state too, you think the villages would escape this mess? We would be hit more because you know, it’s the old folks community!

Who you callin' old folks, Willis? (Oops. Did I just give my age away?)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Remembergoldenrule

Easiest way to stop shoplifters is to start giving them jail time like they used to do. Jail time should be without tv or exercise equipment time. Should be like the Singapore jails. Only time out of cell is to do road side pick up of trash or weeding mowing government property or walking circles in prison yard with no talking.

So some info:

It costs around $80/day for the state to incarcerate someone. If a person is convicted and jailed for 30 days for shoplifting, that means the shoplifter's jail term is costing $2400 for room and board.

The convicted shoplifter has to pay $50/day for the privilege, bringing that $80 total down to only $30/day. For 30 days, that's $900 that the taxpayer has to pay, to incarcerate someone who might've been caught stealing a pack of gum.

Prisoners in Florida don't get paid to work, so when they get out of jail they'll be in debt $1500 (the total of $2400 minus the $900 that the taxpayer has to pay for). Now that they're ex-convicts, they aren't likely to find a job. Their credit score tanks, they can't get a loan, any loans they have will be called in, putting them further into debt. They can't rent, they can't mortgage, they can't work, they can't pay that debt back. Their only choices then, are a) end up on welfare, food stamps, and medicaid and the taxpayer pays for their future expenses, b) commit more crimes to make ends meet, or c) marry someone with money.

All that, because someone stole a pack of gum and got caught.

Nope - jailing shoplifters without regard to *what* they stole - isn't the answer. It doesn't teach the shoplifter a lesson, there's no rehabilitation, and there's a high probability that it'll cost the taxpayer a LOT more than it would've cost, if they just told the shoplifter to stop being stupid.

[MplsPete]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Any other novel ways by merchants of countering shoplifting that you know of?

Any other ideas from folks how to stem the shoplifting craze?

Cub Grocery has mostly ended their 24 / 7 policy, locking down from Midnight to 5am. Also they no longer put Tide and Gain on the shelf: you must ask for it. Also, in one of their more urban locations they position displays and shopping carts to subtly block some easy routes of egress, channeling customer through check out paths. It's disturbing how many shops encourage employees to not challenge shoplifters to any extent.
Funny story: a few years ago when the wife had surgery on her foot, we asked where to find the handicapped - motorized carts. "They were all stolen."

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

So some info:

It costs around $80/day for the state to incarcerate someone. If a person is convicted and jailed for 30 days for shoplifting, that means the shoplifter's jail term is costing $2400 for room and board.

The convicted shoplifter has to pay $50/day for the privilege, bringing that $80 total down to only $30/day. For 30 days, that's $900 that the taxpayer has to pay, to incarcerate someone who might've been caught stealing a pack of gum.

Prisoners in Florida don't get paid to work, so when they get out of jail they'll be in debt $1500 (the total of $2400 minus the $900 that the taxpayer has to pay for). Now that they're ex-convicts, they aren't likely to find a job. Their credit score tanks, they can't get a loan, any loans they have will be called in, putting them further into debt. They can't rent, they can't mortgage, they can't work, they can't pay that debt back. Their only choices then, are a) end up on welfare, food stamps, and medicaid and the taxpayer pays for their future expenses, b) commit more crimes to make ends meet, or c) marry someone with money.

All that, because someone stole a pack of gum and got caught.

Nope - jailing shoplifters without regard to *what* they stole - isn't the answer. It doesn't teach the shoplifter a lesson, there's no rehabilitation, and there's a high probability that it'll cost the taxpayer a LOT more than it would've cost, if they just told the shoplifter to stop being stupid.

"All for a pack of gum"...

Yes, that is exactly what people are talking about...

Are you familiar with the "reductio absurdum fallacy"?

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Agreed. In Minnesota any shoplifting theft under $1000 is a misdemeanor. You can report it but due to police shortages and the proliferation of other more serious crimes (in the eyes of law enforcement anyway) following up on misdemeanors is seen as a waste of time.

We Villagers are extraordinarily lucky to have the law enforcement we have.

You think there isn't shoplifting in The Villages?!?!?!?
FYI shoplifting laws are the same here as Minnesota, except the value is $300

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

All that, because someone stole a pack of gum and got caught.

Nobody is talking about a pack of gum. This is about smash & grabs or shopping carts full of stolen goods.

+1 to JMintzer's comment "reductio absurdum fallacy".

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

...jailing shoplifters .... It doesn't teach the shoplifter a lesson

I disagree. The lesson currently being taught is breaking the law has no consequences. Prison teaches the opposite lesson.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by huge-pigeons

Why would anybody want to live in the lawless states like MN, CA, NY, NJ, IL, and others?

You get what you vote for, and the residents of these states deserve every bit of this mess.

Good question, and

correct.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by blueash

Unless those dollars are spent on things that might actually rein in crime like affordable housing, better schools, supporting teachers, more available counseling for mental health and drug addiction issues, and support of single parents.. Things that might rein in crime that anti-progressives have no interest in spending money on.

LOL, cuz that has worked well everywhere it has been tried. Maybe they just weren't doing it right? I know, let's double -down on failed policy!

Originally Posted by blueash

When you start complaining about how speeders and stop sign runners, activities that clearly hurt people and property get resolved by our system with a warning or a low dollar fine and insist that such things all be charged as a felony with high or no bail and demand speeders and stop sign runners be held in jail until trial and then subject to the highest available punishment I might take your whining about shop lifting more seriously.

When you insist that people who cheat on their taxes by not reporting income, by manipulating values of properties, by paying workers under the table all be arrested, jailed, held, and treated as felons not given any breaks I will take your whining more seriously.

All laws should be enforced. I agree. But equating major shoplifting with minor speeding is disingenuous. Now if someone is going 40mph over the limit, sure, put them in jail.

Originally Posted by blueash

But crimes of rich people have always been down-charged and whitewashed while those of POC are fully policed. Funny how cocaine was a focus of policing until its use crossed over to the white community. And how crack cocaine was heavily punished, used by poor and minority communities, while powder cocaine was trendy, used by white people. The Federal government set a 100 to 1 sentencing ratio difference for selling crack vs powder cocaine. Hmm. Nothing to see here.

So you are excusing smash & grabs or major stealing because of racism? Pretty sure the small businesses that get robbed have a different view.