I love seeing links in arguments. It is my librarian training. And links to reliable resources.

Intelligent and decent people want legitimate and truthful information, which links can provide, while all too many others eschew anything that doesn't fit their own confirmation bias...and become confused (sometimes even angry) with 'actual facts.' :ohdear:

"while all too many others eschew anything that doesn't fit their own confirmation bias.."

You do realize it can work both ways, don't you?

Steve

It absolutely can...I agree.

Have any links I can read....I, like Tal, appreciate them myself but never see much.

Several posts have been deleted as directed at member. Please return to discussing the topic or the thread will be closed.

Moderator

Thank you

If I were a crazed, but skilled psychopath with a gun, and I knew that teachers were allowed to have firearms in the classroom, it'd be pretty simple: kill the teacher first. Then take their gun, and use it to kill the students. My totally crazed psychopathic brain would find the irony of that gloriously magnificent.

Be grateful that I'm not one of those, AND that the teachers in classrooms of schools I've been to and live near, aren't allowed to have firearms in the classroom.

No. It's a ridiculous idea. If you must have guns in schools then let it be security guards who choose that line of work.

Arming teachers is an asinine idea, beyond stupid. There is nothing about it that is in the best interests of education.

The agenda behind it is the ultimate example of passing the buck, kicking the can down the road. — The top must stop abdicating taking responsibility for doing what it takes to find, fund, and implement a real solution.

This thing is going to grow arms and legs that a lot of people cannot even imagine.

I think money should be spent on whatever it takes to make it as hard to enter a school with a gun as it is to get through the doors to Congress with a gun.

I cannot imagine why anyone would want to teach now. I sure wouldn’t.

“Mamas Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Teachers”


Sincerely,
Mrs. Boomer (35 years, secondary ed, armed only with a disarming smile and/or a darned stern look-in-the-eye when necessary) — loved it (most days) Now days? Never!

:bigbow:

When I went to my 30th high school class reunion back in 1990 I ran into a classmate I knew who was designing schools. It shocked me at the time when he told me they were installing metal detectors at the entrances. Now that was almost 30 years ago so guns, knives and razor blades had become problematic in schools even back then.

I recall one guy I knew and was quite wary of even in grade school had one day come to high school with a .22 rifle down one leg of his jeans. He was walking around stiff-legged. Apparently he wanted to shoot another guy who was trying to date his girlfriend. The gun toter showed up at a reunion but I kept my distance.

Thank you, Boomer for saying so succinctly what I was trying to say too. I suspect that arming teacher seems like a cheaper alternative to having specialized personnel or metal detectors in schools. People have not thought through what kind of teachers they would get if this policy were in place.

“Guns for hire, needs to be able to teach English Lit too.”

There are violent and vicious people in this world that have absolutely no respect for another person's life and will kill without a bit of remorse. Thankfully the odds of being killed by one of these animals is pretty low but when you are one of that small percentage it makes for a very bad day. I'm nearly 72 with a bad heart and arthritis. I definitely can't stand toe to toe with a young thug and slug it out. I can't out run one either so the only choice I have is to take a beating and possible die from it, or carry a gun to give myself a better chance of avoiding a beating. I much prefer carrying a concealed firearm and not need it than to not carry a gun and need it. Do I like this, NO, it distressed me greatly that everyone can't be a decent person and treat everyone well.

:thumbup:

I don't know but perhaps we've come to the time when everyone must enter a school through one entrance only.
Everyone would have to pass through a metal detector, in type like those in all government buildings.
Of course, the entry would have to be manned all day by highly trained personnel.

It would be great if there was another solution, but I'm not sure there is.

In recent years at my old high school which now lies in "The War Zone" of Albuquerque some of the girls hide razor blades in their hair which they use to reach out and slash other girls as they pass in the halls. Any metal detectors installed would need to be very sensitive and properly operated to find them.

What is Albuquerque's 'War Zone' and why is it call that way? - Quora

It happens elsewhere as well. NYPD: Suspect in Queens school fight hid razor blades in her hair; 3 hurt | abc7ny.com

Did not know that Albuquerque had those kind of problems.

I traveled to El Paso in December of 2000 for an interview with the University of Texas at El Paso Library and their President and they had mentioned how safe El Paso was. And my research kind of showed that they were right.

Whew! Razor blades in their hair??? That's pretty bad; no -- that's nasty!

Are there metal detectors that would pick up razor blades in someone's hair? Are the cameras at airports able to do that?

I also forgot to add to my comment that schools need to have cameras everywhere. And I mean really good cameras and not the 7-11 variety type

Thank you for a real-world example...............may you never need it.

It seems very inefficient and lopsided to dedicate huge sums of money on making it harder for someone to commit a mass killing at a school. There are lots of other places where the same crime could be committed. I think it may be more productive to focus on changing how schools are designed and operated as far as how students are taught, how many students need to be in the same room at the same time, and how interaction with students is accomplished.

Sad. I went through Albuquerque a few times on trips from Denver to Reno and back. I used to take a lot of very long detours usually to see my Great Uncle Roberto who lived near Arizona State University in Tempe, AZ.

It'd be even more efficient and even-handed to make it harder for someone to commit a mass killing, period. Regardless of location.

Maybe someone should come up with the concept of hm, I dunno, adding semi-automatics to the already-existing list of "arms that civilians aren't allowed to buy." Or simply return the AR-15 to the list, where it used to be until it was removed. Would it prevent all mass killings? Nope. Would it make it more difficult to commit them? Yup.

Maybe as a society we should address identifying
deranged individuals in more creative and successful ways!

I worry more about the malls. Very target rich environment.:ohdear:

Just a reminder...the topic was about arming teachers in schools. If it continues to stray into general gun control/legislation discussion, it will be closed.

Moderator

I am a teacher and former military. I have fired weapons that most have never even heard of. I cannot use my skills with guns to protect my kids and that's by contract. A person with a concealed permit can carry on campus but not a teacher. There are many pitfalls to arming teachers but the biggest problem I have in prohibiting it is letting the potential shooter know the teachers are unarmed. I think the carry or not carry needs to be a personal one. Someone needs to have a permit. Having a potential shooter not know if the teachers are armed, I believe is an advantage.
My alternative being prohibited? I had and have a stick. One of the first things I learned in the military was how to defend myself legally with the stick. I learned how to kill with it while holding it with two hands as a defensive weapon. In close combat a person with a knife is at a disadvantage and a person with a gun is on pretty level plain. I need to get close. I have about 50 feet to the door. I am an auto mechanics teacher and have a Chevrolet lower timing gear on my desk. A dual roller chain lower gear that looks a lot like a fighting star. I need the gear to throw to buy the 2 seconds I need to close the gap and get close with my stick. My students are briefed to leave through the back door, go and keep going and don't look back and I will deal with it. Most shooters are not experienced or particularly talented. They will duck the gear coming, buying the time I need to get close and dangerous.
I have a plan. If I die trying, tough nooggies. I will not be executed period. Any plan is better than nothing. I am a military pilot and when an emergency happens you will do what you are trained to do. I am in not in favor of prohibiting guns on teachers as the shooter should not be assured of no guns on campus. I caused a change at our school as now the "fight back" is the standard and not just hide and die.

YES!

Not only they should carry guns, but to make sure that those that brings guns should be stopped in their tracks!!

You can tell the type that would bring a gun to school! You know how!!! I sure do!

Agree. Not a responsibility teachers should take on. Imagine a shooting situation and the police arrive and shout an armed teacher by mistake thinking they might be the shooter. Very bad idea!

Why not. Our children deserve the same level of protection as anyone else. Why do you think the shooters pick schools. Because it
Is so east to get access with a gun and kill many before they can be stopped. They should have the same level of protection of our government and paid for by our government.

See posts 55 & 51

Teachers today face budget cuts, pensions taken away, Sec of Ed who seems to hate teachers, parents who daily badmouth teachers, unsupportive parents, states who underfund education. And you want them to shield your child? You're nuts. Teachers are leaving the profession in less than five years because they are not supported.

I agree and support teachers being allowed to carry. Most will not be interested in doing so. The training is Very Extensive. More so than you might imagine. We already know that gun free zones are a joke and a prime target 🎯

Great point.

Please provide the proposed legislation that would require a teacher to shield students or carry a weapon!?

I will check back.


O dear. O dear

Yes
 

Well, first, anyone wanting to carry in school most likely has ben around guns all their lives.

Second, it is easy for a coward to pick a safe place to ambush, if schools had armed staff it would not be as safe. Even if no one that a certain school it would not be known, thus making the risk unknown.

Third, carrying or not, no one can prevent an ambush, however an armed good guy can drastically shorten the duration of one.

The dumbest thing ever started was posting signs stating "Gun Free Zone". There are drug laws everywhere, so how can there be a drug problem. You get the idea...

YES, I am in favor of the opportunity for staff to carry and remove the stupid Gun Free Zone signs.

Trained police officers
 

My husband and I work for Chicago Public Schools. Children as well as visitors go through metal detectors in the morning with security guards checking bags like at the airport. They also check the bags and anyone returning into the building after a fire drill goes through metal detectors. There are two armed police officers in the buildings and a full security staff. No in school shootings. Why wouldn't schools hire trained police officers and a well trained security staff? I am city wide and have been in hundreds of buildings in Chicago and our police staff do an excellent job as do our security staff. Teachers are in schools to educate children not to carry guns.

Having worked most of my career on public high school and college campuses, I see great benefit for firearms-trained staff and faculty to carry. Sadly, no place is safe anymore and advertising gun-free zones only invites criminal behavior as a soft target.

Very costly...………..Chicago Schools are carrying $8B in debt. City of Chicago is bankrupt.

Teachers and Guns
 

Teachers impart there education onto our students. They receive modest compensation for this. If they feel the need or agree with the reasoning of them having a gun on there person we should support them. We should not strip away there rights to carry arms at our will. In today’s society it is foolish to think anywhere is safe and will be absent of extreme violence.
Metal detectors cannot detect all weapon types. Annually many education facilities have extreme violence incidences. The first line of prevention is knowing defense.
This is a silly example. Would a robber try to hold up a bar where 300 hells angles were having a rest stop on the way to a meet. The same reasoning if a educational facility had a staff of 125. And all of that staff was able to carry a gun. Would the potential shooter go inside sporting a gun, I don’t think so.

No, absolutely not. Most teachers are very young and if you are a police officer they go through much more training. As the wife of a retired federal agent and a nurse, nothing could make me change my mind. Police officer have an accuracy problem in live shooting incidents. Adrenalin runs through you blood and causes you to shake many instances. Teachers who go through a few weeks of training have no business with guns. Police officers have accidentally discharged their guns twice in Publix in the last few weeks, teachers make no sense. They went to school to teach not shoot people or kids.