[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

2 years ago we weren't making the Saudis rich, America was getting rich. The only thing getting cleaner is American's pockets.

Political comments are supposed to not be allowed.

Sorry you have been deceived

[Tvflguy]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Political comments are supposed to not be allowed.

Sorry you have been deceived

Political? C’mon give it a break.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Fire were a problem with a few, so they replaced them all - yes, just a problem. Not to many years ago Ford and GM both had problems with gas tanks exploding when you got hit.

"Not too many years ago"?

Wasn't that like 40-50 years ago? And didn't NBC "Dateline" get caught rigging those trucks to explode on impact?

NBC Admits It Rigged Crash, Settles GM Suit - Los Angeles Times

[Byte1]

Why is it that no one mentions how much it costs to charge these EV's on the go, away from home? Not sure if this is fact so I will caveat my next statement that this is third party word of mouth. A neighbor my wife spoke to said she traveled to another state in her EV to visit family lately and paid $48 to charge it up at one of the charging stations. She figured that it cost her the equivalent of $6.25 per gallon of gasoline. I have no idea what make and size EV she has so it's no use asking. I am just throwing this out there so someone with an EV can tell me how much they are paying on a trip and not using their home charger.
As for an answer to those suggesting that gas users are paying the Middle East for oil, it seems to me that not too long ago we were oil independent. Besides, what is the difference between paying a ME country and paying China?
I am not against EV's. I am against being FORCED or PUSHED into converting to EVs. They can coexist in this country just like the gas powered and battery powered golf carts do.
$7500 tax break is not going to help me or convince me to purchase an EV and I imagine that many low income workers feel the same. Right now, an EV is not a viable option for me.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Why is it that no one mentions how much it costs to charge these EV's on the go, away from home? Not sure if this is fact so I will caveat my next statement that this is third party word of mouth. A neighbor my wife spoke to said she traveled to another state in her EV to visit family lately and paid $48 to charge it up at one of the charging stations. She figured that it cost her the equivalent of $6.25 per gallon of gasoline. I have no idea what make and size EV she has so it's no use asking. I am just throwing this out there so someone with an EV can tell me how much they are paying on a trip and not using their home charger.
As for an answer to those suggesting that gas users are paying the Middle East for oil, it seems to me that not too long ago we were oil independent. Besides, what is the difference between paying a ME country and paying China?
I am not against EV's. I am against being FORCED or PUSHED into converting to EVs. They can coexist in this country just like the gas powered and battery powered golf carts do.
$7500 tax break is not going to help me or convince me to purchase an EV and I imagine that many low income workers feel the same. Right now, an EV is not a viable option for me.

Interesting, the following is for Tesla's, you didn't mention which EV they have:

Here are the calculations for two Tesla models:

Tesla Model Y

The Model Y features a 75 kWh battery. Multiply that by the average commercial cost of $0.22 per kWh, account for 95% charging efficiency, and you’re looking at a price of $17.21 to charge the Tesla on a Supercharger or DCFC equivalent.

Breaking it down in terms of mileage, the Long Range Model Y costs approximately $0.053 per mile or $5.28 per 100 miles.

On the other hand, a Performance Model Y will run you about $0.057 per mile and $5.68 for 100 miles of range.

Tesla Model 3

Moving on to the least expensive Tesla, the 50 kWh battery on the Standard Range Plus Model 3 will cost approximately $11.47 to fully charge, while the 82 kWh batteries on the other trims will run you about $18.82 each.

A Standard Range Plus Model 3 comes out to roughly $0.044 per mile and $4.38 for 100 miles of range. Meanwhile, the Performance Model 3 and its 315-mile range will cost about $0.060 per mile and around $5.97 for 100 miles.

Assuming $3.50/gal for gas, and 30mpg that comes out to about $12 per 100 miles. Or a little over twice the cost of the EV.

So, around $0.07/mile for EV and $0.17/mile for ICE based on total cost per mile for fuel and maintenance. (We would compare resell value, since at the moment used Teslas sell for more than new ones... ahem) That is $0.10/mile. If you drive 15,000 miles per year (low ball average) that saves you $1,500 per year in fuel and maintenance.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Byte1

They can coexist in this country just like the gas powered and battery powered golf carts do.
$7500 tax break is not going to help me or convince me to purchase an EV and I imagine that many low income workers feel the same. Right now, an EV is not a viable option for me.

I agree they can and WILL coexist for decades. Replacing infrastructure and 300 million vehicles will take a while - I expect at least 30 years, assuming we don't have a major depression or recession that resets the clock for a decade.

I thoughtI read the Tax credit will be based on income? (I could be clueless on this, I have read the actually legislation) and you have two pay taxes to use the tax credit, so, if you don't pay at least $7500 in taxes you can't get the whole (or any) tax credit.

And finally, I don't consider incentives to be force. And 30 years is certainly long enough for it not to seriously impact any of us.

For my wife and myself we are happy with our current cars and have no plans to buy an EV soon. If one or both of those have to be replaced we will buy EV then. If full self driving becomes available, then we will probably purchase, since driving is becoming more and more stressful for us.

So, each has to make their own decision about if now is a good time to buy, or to wait. Our timeline (barring unexpected) is about 5 years before we purchase.

[retiredguy123]

The tax credit is an incentive to the buyer of an EV, but the taxpayers are forced to pay for the credit.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

The tax credit is an incentive to the buyer of an EV, but the taxpayers are forced to pay for the credit.

The market should decide the winner of EV and internal combustion engines as long as we make the auto makers strive for cleaner emissions.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Political comments are supposed to not be allowed.

Sorry you have been deceived

Think you are stretching what political is allowed and what is not. On some level everything is political

[Altavia]

Has anyone here who has purchased an EV sold/traded it to switch back to gas?

[Jimbob the Newbie]

"There Are No Charging Stations Between Here and Where I Want to Go."

Take a quick look at this map. Those pretty yellow dots are not urban lights. Each one represents a charging station of one kind or another, all along the Eastern Seaboard. Range anxiety just isn't a thing anymore.

EV Range and Smart Route Planner

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

Yep this is the Bolt EV / EUV you’re referring to. This is the one that had battery fires and was banned from parking lots etc etc. I’m a member of their Facebook site since I may …possibly… buy an EV, prospect in the future. There are some other EVs, but more $$$ that are rated much better. The Bolt had that jellybean shape - uggg. And has its share of issues.

GM will be conducting a recall of Bolt EVs (2017-2022) and Bolt EUVs (2022) to address the risk of battery fires in these vehicles. Out of an abundance of caution, GM will replace defective lithium-ion battery modules in Chevrolet Bolt EVs and EUVs with new lithium-ion modules.

There are 7 fuel/propulsion system complaints, 5 powertrain complaints, 3 that relate to service brakes, and 2 to do with steering. Airbag, lane departure, suspension, tires, and vehicle speed control issues also feature.

Also, batteries catching on fire isn’t the only issue with batteries. Bradley Berman, who writes for Autoweek, says he leased a Bolt for three years. During that time, his battery pack was replaced three times due to cell failure. The car didn’t go up in flames, it simply stopped on the road leaving him stranded!

Oh by the way batteries come from China. So a purchase profits our ‘enemy’ and probably worker abuse etc etc. yes, be good to the next generation and fund China even more…

OK. I can accept ALL the DETAILS of that post. Please accept that I wrote a GENERAL framework and philosophy of the BENEFITS of EV ownership, which I note you also see as a possible path forward. So, we agree about that GENERAL principle. Chevrolet has never (since 1957) been a PARAGON of quality control. After 1957 they decided that STYLE sold cars and since then I have realized that Japan and Germany produced better quality vehicles.

I merely said that the Chevrolet EV has a REASONABLE price or $ 40 K, which I believe is true. I have NOT myself been researching the details of ANY or all EVs. With my current budget, I have purchased an E-bike and I am considering buying an electric golf cart. I don't have the budget for a full size vehicle - if and when I do, I will research the full size EVs. EVs and their development are in their INFANCY - even some Teslas have exploded or caught fire - ICE vehicles catch fire often, also! There are many people in TV Land that can afford a Tesla or BMW or Japanese EV. Perhaps they should take the advice of the poster that recommends that Chevrolet EVs be avoided.

I stand by my post because it suggested that EVs, whether large or small or at whatever price point - are worth considering because of the general principles and advantages that I posted. EVs with their REVOLVING electric motors have theoretical and inherent advantages for RELIABILITY and LOWER operating costs over their RICIPROCATING piston ICE vehicles.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

2 years ago we weren't making the Saudis rich, America was getting rich. The only thing getting cleaner is American's pockets.

People can have different opinions. My opinion is that we have been making Saudi Arabia RICH for, at least, 80 years. The US has the most ICE vehicles in the world so we are the ones MOSTLY making them RICH. And they are NOT our allies. So, it is patriotic for the US to switch away from ICE vehicles and equipment and toward EV equipment. People can start small with electrical weed eaters, electrical lawn mowers, E riding mowers, E-golf carts, E-bikes and later work their way up to electrical cars and trucks.

That way we can eliminate oil dependence on the Middle East and lower the use of US oil, which can be used for a large list of commercial products. That would allow the US oil supply to last longer, while avoiding the entanglements of Middle East war potential and help Europe from being dependent on Russian oil.

All these international affairs are intertwined with the US's switch from ICE petroleum products to E-products.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Think you are stretching what political is allowed and what is not. On some level everything is political

oh how so very true!!!

[loutapes]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

With all the news re Electric vehicles, how likely are YOU to purchase one? If not, why not?

For me, our 5 year old gas vehicle is perfectly fine for many many years. And at our tax rate cannot use any Tax Credit to lower price. But if our situation changed I would consider.

Not remotely interested. I have a 2017 Caddy XT 5 Platinum edition with 30M miles on it with a 68M mil warranty. NO reason to buy a new car especially an electric car. I drive less than 10M a year