[tedquick]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

Why can you believe that god is eternal but not believe the universe is eternal? And, of all the creation myths that humans have come up with, why do you believe this particular one? I think the difference between what I believe in and what you believe in is that if you would show me proof of what you believe in, I would change my mind. But there is nothing that anyone could show you that can make you change your mind, so these posts become nothing more than a forum for you to repeat over and over what your "beliefs" are. Throughout the ages, your original question "if not god then how" has been asked about fire, thunder and lightning, birth, death, disease, good and evil, etc.

Hello, Barry, while we probably all agree that “man”, even though we may be reasonably bright, does not have all the answers, there is very strong evidence that our universe came from nothing, in other words, the universe is not eternal. It therefore makes more sense to me that there was a Creator than that all of this “just happened”. Does it make sense that there was nothing (whatever that means) and then suddenly there was this “big bang” and 13.9 billion years later here we are or that there was (and always has been) a supreme being that caused the Big Bang to take place?

Even though there may be no “proof” that God exists, I believe there’s more evidence that He does than any of the other beliefs (myths, if you will) that I’ve heard bandied about. There *is* a universe (or multiverses perhaps) so therefore it/they had to come into being by some means or another. I don’t think that “things just happen”. I believe in causality, don’t you?

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by tippyclubb

Yes, I watched your video all 38 minutes of it. According to it it I'm an atheist, which I was totally unaware of. Again, just another name.

I've done the church routine for many years and witness so much hypocrisy by God bearing people it soured me. I left the church disillusioned and vowed not to live my life being hypocritical.

I try to live my life according to the Golden Rule. You people on this forum know nothing about the goodness Tom & I have done for many charitable organizations. You know nothing about the countless soup kitchens we have worked in. Have you ever walked the streets of Detroit handing out food to the homeless? Have you ever sung Christmas carols in a nursing home? Have you done Meals On Wheels? Are you involved with Rainbow Connections or Fulfill A Dream? Have you ever welcomed a new person personally in TV? The list goes on. Small acts of kindness is powerful.

Tell me what you have done in the name of God to make other people's lives better. Do you live by The Golden Rule? Do you want to go to the Ocala National Forest with me to help feed the staving kids, and people there? I will come pick you up and together we can feed the hungry. It's not a pretty picture. PM me if you want to help out.

Hello, tippyclubb -- I was disillusioned myself many years ago with all of the hypocrisy that I saw in “church going people”. A number of years ago, however, I returned to Christ, and the church, and of course realized that every person in that church is a sinner. I certainly am. While I mostly live a good life, I certainly am a fallible human being. I am grateful that I can rub shoulders with others who believe similarly to me. So far I have not met a perfect and sinless person and have no expectation that I will.

I compliment Tom and you on your good works. More of us should be less selfish and I am in that camp. Each of us has to decide for ourselves what and how we assist those who truly are in need just as each of us must decide on which spiritual path we will take.

BTW, I can't tell you what is right for you. I only know what is right for me.

[tucson]

We can't SEE air, BUT we can't LIVE without it, and we KNOW it is a reality. Same with God.

[TheVillageChicken]

The point of argument is to convince or persuade. No one on either side is going to experience an epiphanic moment while sipping their coffee and reading this thread. The dogma on both sides is too powerful.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by tucson

We can't SEE air, BUT we can't LIVE without it, and we KNOW it is a reality. Same with God.

Oh, but we can see air through scientific methods. We can measure it's density, chemical makeup, polutants etc.

[tucson]

Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right. (Abe Lincoln quote)

[onslowe]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Oh, but we can see air through scientific methods. We can measure it's density, chemical makeup, polutants etc.

Can anyone, though, describe the aroma of a rose?

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken

The point of argument is to convince or persuade. No one on either side is going to experience an epiphanic moment while sipping their coffee and reading this thread. The dogma on both sides is too powerful.

Your point is well taken and it reminds me of a situation I was in a number of years ago. I am politically very conservative and had a good friend who was just as passionate as I, except he was a liberal. Our discussions were often times a gathering place for the entertainment of others. We finally had to cease those discussions because he ended up getting very angry when he could no longer defend his positions. So as “they” say in religion and politics, there is no winning. When there are intractable views on either side, a debate (or discussion) could very well sink into an argument where nothing is being accomplished except to anger the party whose position seems indefensible. Once that happens nothing is being accomplished except to farther divide us from each other. (There is too much of that presently being done purposefully in Washington).

The conscious reason for my topics is to share thoughts, beliefs and feelings with others who have similar and even those with opposite views. I think a lively debate/discussion is good for all involved. As long as communication is taking place something is being accomplished, whether that be a changing of heart or mind, or at a minimum some thought provoking exchanges. None of us live on an island. We are all a part of something much larger.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by tippyclubb

I find it interesting you edited your post to include words totally different than what I responded too.

I edited at 12:45 AM and you replied at 12:50 AM, don't see a problem. Please explain if so.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by tippyclubb

Yes, I watched your video all 38 minutes of it. According to it it I'm an atheist, which I was totally unaware of. Again, just another name.

I've done the church routine for many years and witness so much hypocrisy by God bearing people it soured me. I left the church disillusioned and vowed not to live my life being hypocritical.

I try to live my life according to the Golden Rule. You people on this forum know nothing about the goodness Tom & I have done for many charitable organizations. You know nothing about the countless soup kitchens we have worked in. Have you ever walked the streets of Detroit handing out food to the homeless? Have you ever sung Christmas carols in a nursing home? Have you done Meals On Wheels? Are you involved with Rainbow Connections or Fulfill A Dream? Have you ever welcomed a new person personally in TV? The list goes on. Small acts of kindness is powerful.

Tell me what you have done in the name of God to make other people's lives better. Do you live by The Golden Rule? Do you want to go to the Ocala National Forest with me to help feed the staving kids, and people there? I will come pick you up and together we can feed the hungry. It's not a pretty picture. PM me if you want to help out.

All the things you have mentioned are good of course and I and others too have done many things to help other people as most people have a desire to help others. Good works done for the right reason are always good but usually we don't tell everyone about all the things we have done expecting praise from man.

To have someone say God is just made up in peoples minds and attack those that do believe is very insulting and is not necessary. I hope you can find faith and God and do not wish to offend or insult anyone. I will explain why I do know and do believe and listen to why anyone says they don't. It is hard to understand why it is necessary to attack believers and their beliefs and then not expect them to want to reply.

Best Wishes

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

Most religious people cannot say they have helped in the many organizations and other things that you say you have done. They may say they are Christians, but what have they done beyond going to church every week? It's like the old story: just because you work in a garage doesn't make you a mechanic. Well, just because you go to church doesn't make you a good Christian either. How many religious people pray and the minute they walk out of their place of worship, all is forgotten.

I would much rather see people take action with some group or organization that is involved in helping others in some way, than those who regularly go to church and other than that, do nothing.

There are those who say or think that being an atheist is bad? So what is bad about it? Nothing. That's what!

BTW -- do you know what God looks like? I do. She's black.

Throwing around a lot of accusations at others just because they believe and don't always come up to non believers standards seems to be a common practice even though they don't know if it is true or not..

Fortunately believers and non believers will be measured by God's yardstick and not mans.

I would say if one is determined to be an atheist then so be it but it is not appropriate to throw stones at people who are not atheist or their beliefs.

Many do many good things but feel it inappropriate to tell everyone about them.

People judge right or wrong by what they see on the outside and God judges what's on the inside.

PS: It matters not one little bit what God looks like, he loved us before we were ever even born so who are we to question anything.


King James Version of Isaiah 64:6.
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

How about being specific and cite an example?

And that would be an example of what ?

If it is that God exists, how about the Holy Bible, thousands of churches, millions and millions of believers....

[cattywampus]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

“Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence.”

True.!!


We all know there are Known Knowns
as well as Known Unknowns.

There are also Uknown Unknowns.
Thing that we don't know that we don't know.

.

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

Why can you believe that god is eternal but not believe the universe is eternal? And, of all the creation myths that humans have come up with, why do you believe this particular one? I think the difference between what I believe in and what you believe in is that if you would show me proof of what you believe in, I would change my mind. But there is nothing that anyone could show you that can make you change your mind, so these posts become nothing more than a forum for you to repeat over and over what your "beliefs" are. Throughout the ages, your original question "if not god then how" has been asked about fire, thunder and lightning, birth, death, disease, good and evil, etc.

Barry, I reread most of this thread. You just said that if I would show you proof of what I believe in, you would change your mind. So, I am going to challenge you to read "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler. If you don't want to buy the book I'll loan you my copy. That is not why I believe, but it is difficult to NOT believe if you read and absorb what is being said. Onslowe has suggested twice now that all should read the book. I read it based on Onslowe's first suggestion and now I'm re-enforcing that position.

If anyone reading this any doubt about your Christianity, don't believe or just want re-enforcement to bolster your belief then it is a must read.

If Barry doesn't want to borrow it I'll loan it to anyone who wants a good read.

[tippyclubb]

[QUOTE=KeepingItReal;961470][B]

All the things you have mentioned are good of course and I and others too have done many things to help other people as most people have a desire to help others. Good works done for the right reason are always good but usually we don't tell everyone about all the things we have done expecting praise from man.

To have someone say God is just made up in peoples minds and attack those that do believe is very insulting and is not necessary. I hope you can find faith and God and do not wish to offend or insult anyone. I will explain why I do know and do believe and listen to why anyone says they don't. It is hard to understand why it is necessary to attack believers and their beliefs and then not expect them to want to reply.

Best Wishes

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.



You post a 38 minute link for me explaining how I am an atheist, and you think I have attacked you? I have re read my post and don't see how I insulted you, let alone attacked you. I am sorry you took it that way as it was not my intentions. I was trying to convey a person does not have to be religious to be a good person. I don't live my life according to the word of God or the Bible. The Golden Rule is my guideline and it works very well for me. And with that I am done with this thread.