[ThirdOfFive]

I wonder--do people really know how that electricity they use in their EVs is generated? It is not the squeaky-clean, totally environmentally friendly (whatever that means) power that some people seem to think.

According to EIA dot gov, the breakdown is as follows:

FOSSIL FUELS: 60.2% of the total, coal and natural gas mainly.

NUCLEAR: 18.2%

RENEWABLES: 21.5%. wind, solar, hydropower, etc., also includes biomass (wood, landfill gas) and geothermal.

All in all, not quite so clean as many of us seem to want to believe.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

So, if everyone owned an EV, do you think you would still get instant access to a charging station?

Apparently, only 4% of the population owns an EV. There are about 1-2 million on the road and there are about 58,000 in Florida.

How Many Electric Vehicles Are There In The U.S.? 19+ Stats!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

I wonder--do people really know how that electricity they use in their EVs is generated? It is not the squeaky-clean, totally environmentally friendly (whatever that means) power that some people seem to think.

According to EIA dot gov, the breakdown is as follows:

FOSSIL FUELS: 60.2% of the total, coal and natural gas mainly.

NUCLEAR: 18.2%

RENEWABLES: 21.5%. wind, solar, hydropower, etc., also includes biomass (wood, landfill gas) and geothermal.

All in all, not quite so clean as many of us seem to want to believe.

60% is better than 100% PLUS that 60% must be generated much more efficiently in order for the electric companies to charge us so little for the equivalent amount of energy. Not 100% clean, but nearly 50% cleaner?

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

Apparently, only 4% of the population owns an EV. There are about 1-2 million on the road and there are about 58,000 in Florida.

How Many Electric Vehicles Are There In The U.S.? 19+ Stats!

EVs are definitely NOT one size fits all. They make a bit more sense in states like Florida, California, etc., where the weather is warm year-round, but take that charming little EV-mobile north and things get dicey fast.

"Cold temperatures do affect electric vehicles and steal some of their range. The amount of range lost depends on many factors such as the car itself, its potential range in normal weather, and whether the heat is on. According to AAA, EVs often lose 12% of their range in cold weather, but the loss leaps to 41% with the heater on full blast" (blink charging dot com).

There is a huge swath of country (most of north and northwest Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Montana, parts of other states), almoste 25% of the entire landmass of the country, that is home to only about 2% of the total population. This is also big winter country: below-zero temps are common, and with only 2% of the population living there you can imagine that there are huge chunks of real estate with roads going through them where there is literally nothing. Here in Florida you might have to go 10-15 miles to reach the nearest EV charging point. Up there, gas stations can be 50 miles or more apart and I assume that not all of them (or even most, considering the country) have EV charging stations. Up there, if your charge is running low and you have 30 miles of subzero driving ahead of you--well, it is definitely a roll of the dice.

I'll stick to internal combustion, especially in sparsely populated areas. Far more dependable and secure.

[melpetezrinski]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

So, if everyone owned an EV, do you think you would still get instant access to a charging station?

Don't know but I guess that would all depend upon when "everyone owned an EV". Your hypothetical question won't happen within the next 10 years and probably will never, as newer technologies will emerge. However, I will indulge and say that even as Tesla continues to build out their supercharger network, if "everyone owned an EV" within 5 years, I think there would be quite a bottleneck at the stations.

[Indy-Guy]

Drivers of EVs in Florida are using our roads for free by not paying the highway gas tax that is charged at the gas pump to keep up our roads. Currently there are 31 states that charge a tax-fee at the time of license plate purchase to collect the fair share of EVs use of the roads. I do not know if you are traveling and use a pay to charge station to charge your EV if you pay a highway tax or not. If anyone knows please share that info.

Below is a link to how Florida may be moving towards getting EV owners to start paying their fair share.

Florida EV owners may get their own version of a gas tax | WUSF Public Media

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

That figures. As a taxpayer, please thank me for subsidizing YOUR purchase of YOUR car. Just love the crap they build into the tax code.

Are the charging stations also being subsidized by the Federal Government?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Are the charging stations also being subsidized by the Federal Government?

Don't know, but wouldn't surprise me.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Indy-Guy

Drivers of EVs in Florida are using our roads for free by not paying the highway gas tax that is charged at the gas pump to keep up our roads. Currently there are 31 states that charge a tax-fee at the time of license plate purchase to collect the fair share of EVs use of the roads. I do not know if you are traveling and use a pay to charge station to charge your EV if you pay a highway tax or not. If anyone knows please share that info.

Below is a link to how Florida may be moving towards getting EV owners to start paying their fair share.

Florida EV owners may get their own version of a gas tax | WUSF Public Media

"fair share" is a term used by those who want someone else to pay more.

The justification for this is a slippery slope. The proposal is to charge a fee for vehicles that use zero gallons per mile to help pay for roads. "Normal" cars pay $0.28/gallon in tax but cars that don't use gas pay nothing. The owners of those vehicles are not buying fuel and not paying the fuel tax so they are not paying their fair share.

OK, what is "fair?" If $200 is a fair amount to charge a vehicle that uses no gas then is it fair that a hybrid pays only about 1/3 of that? Maybe we should charge hybrids and other high-mpg vehicles a fee to offset their fuel conservation too. And what about the EV driver who lives in the Villages, uses their golf cart for most of their transportation, and drives less than the 13,500 mile average that was used to calculate the $200? Is it fair to them that they get charged for road usage they did not actually use?

Maybe the only "fair" thing to do would be to drop the gas tax entirely and just increase the registration fee. That should be fair.... except for the little old lady who only drives to church on Sunday. She does not use the roads the Florida average of 13,500 miles per year. There would also be a problem with drivers from other states that use the Florida roads but don't pay Florida registration tax. How would they pay their "fair share?"

[Number 10 GI]

The average price for a new electric vehicle is $66,000, and the average price for a new gas vehicle is $46,000 according to a Google search. There are a lot of people that can't afford a new gas vehicle let alone a new electric vehicle. Only well-to-do people can afford a new electric vehicle.
It is totally unconscionable that the government takes the taxes from the working poor to give to rich people when they purchase a virtue signaling electric vehicle. If you want to virtue signal, do it on your own Dime, not off the backs of low income workers.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

The average price for a new electric vehicle is $66,000, and the average price for a new gas vehicle is $46,000 according to a Google search. There are a lot of people that can't afford a new gas vehicle let alone a new electric vehicle. Only well-to-do people can afford a new electric vehicle.
It is totally unconscionable that the government takes the taxes from the working poor to give to rich people when they purchase a virtue signaling electric vehicle. If you want to virtue signal, do it on your own Dime, not off the backs of low income workers.

What in the world are you talking about? What taxes are taken from the poor to give to the rich?

Thanks for the info on the prices though. On the issue of fuel tax, the $66K vehicle would pay something like $1,200 more in sales tax than the gas vehicle. At $200/year, the EV would effectively be pre-paying six years of road usage fees.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What in the world are you talking about? What taxes are taken from the poor to give to the rich?

Thanks for the info on the prices though. On the issue of fuel tax, the $66K vehicle would pay something like $1,200 more in sales tax than the gas vehicle. At $200/year, the EV would effectively be pre-paying six years of road usage fees.

The feds and some state governments are giving incentive money to encourage electric vehicle sales. The government only gets it's money from tax payers.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

What in the world are you talking about? What taxes are taken from the poor to give to the rich?

Thanks for the info on the prices though. On the issue of fuel tax, the $66K vehicle would pay something like $1,200 more in sales tax than the gas vehicle. At $200/year, the EV would effectively be pre-paying six years of road usage fees.

Sales tax and gas tax are two different things. The same thing could apply to a person buying a new $20,000 Nissan Versa and one purchasing a new $500,000 Rolls Royce Phantom, but it still has nothing to do with road usage fees.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

The average price for a new electric vehicle is $66,000, and the average price for a new gas vehicle is $46,000 according to a Google search. There are a lot of people that can't afford a new gas vehicle let alone a new electric vehicle. Only well-to-do people can afford a new electric vehicle.
It is totally unconscionable that the government takes the taxes from the working poor to give to rich people when they purchase a virtue signaling electric vehicle. If you want to virtue signal, do it on your own Dime, not off the backs of low income workers.

They can’t take it out of the taxes of the 47% who don’t pay tax

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

The feds and some state governments are giving incentive money to encourage electric vehicle sales. The government only gets it's money from tax payers.

This credit takes absolutely nothing from anyone. This tax credit is non-refundable - you can't claim more than you actually pay. This credit can set your tax liability to $0 but does not pay you anything back. This credit doesn't take money from the poor to pay the rich, it simply says the purchaser doesn't have to pay that amount in their taxes this year.

(This is unlike other credits where money is taken from taxpayers to give refunds to those who pay $0 in taxes.... a true example of taking from the rich and giving to the poor)