[Whatnext]

So many aeronautical experts. Post #21 has the answer.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Bodrum

The 787 as well as all modern airplanes have a warning system that goes off when the throttles are advanced, and the takeoff configurations are incorrect

Originally Posted by idlewild

From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.

Originally Posted by Velvet

You are not the first one to make this observation. People I know agree with this. We shall see if this was the cause and whether the cause was pilot or mechanical.

Originally Posted by talonip

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth

Thank you, finally someone with a clue.

"It was the pilot's fault because I saw a video and his flaps weren't down" ? Why do people who don't have a clue how to fly an airplane, post such things? It boggles my mind.

You surely have way more logged time than me, but anyone who flies has heard plenty of "stupid pilot tricks". Fortunately, today's planes of that sort, make it unlikely a pilot is going to make a stupid mistake.

Anything is possible, but I doubt the investigation is going to show the Pilot screwed up, all by himself.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

The Mirror US
Expert spots terrifying warning sign moments before Air India Boeing plane crash

Aviation experts believe an issue with the wing flaps of an Air India plane that crashed in the Indian city of Ahmedabad may have played a role in the disaster.

Videos emerged of flight AI171 rapidly dropping shortly after taking off from the Ahmedabad airport and erupting into a fireball as it hit the ground. The plane crashed into a medical college hostel.

After reviewing footage of the crash, aviation analyst Geoffrey Thomas told the BBC that "the undercarriage is still down but the flaps have been retracted."


Thomas said the flaps were in line with the wing, which was quite unusual to happen this soon after take-off.

The undercarriage is normally retracted within 10-15 seconds, and the flaps are then retracted over a period of 10-15 minutes," he explained

Marco Chan, a former pilot and a senior lecturer at Buckinghamshire New University, told the outlet that the incident may "point to potential human error if flaps aren’t set correctly”


"But the resolution of the video is too low to confirm that," Chan added.

Another aviation expert, Terry Tozer, also highlighted an issue with the plane's wings.

"It's very hard to say from the video for sure, it doesn't look as if the flaps are extended and that would be a perfectly obvious explanation for an aircraft not completing its take off correctly," he told the BBC.

Tata Group, which owns the carrier, also said it will also cover the medical expenses of those injured.

"We are deeply anguished by the tragic event involving Air India Flight 171. No words can adequately express the grief we feel at this moment. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families who have lost their loved ones, and with those who have been injured," the company wrote on X.

"Tata Group will provide ₹1 crore to the families of each person who has lost their life in this tragedy. We will also cover the medical expenses of those injured and ensure that they receive all necessary care and support.

"Additionally, we will provide support in the building up of the B J Medical's hostel. We remain steadfast in standing with the affected families and communities during this unimaginable time."

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/198...ibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1Au...ibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16m...ibextid=wwXIfr

[Sgt Ed]

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed. So sad. Can’t link the videos. Several videos distinctly show this issue.

You are assuming a whole lot by blaming the pilots. Let the accident board do their thing and do not second guess them.I take it you are an expert in these things.

[Tvflguy]

Originally Posted by Sgt Ed

You are assuming a whole lot by blaming the pilots. Let the accident board do their thing and do not second guess them.I take it you are an expert in these things.

hmmm. After reviewing the post above yours with videos and such appears he is not the only guy.

[mikemalloy]

From the video it appears that the wheels were not retracted after takeoff. Not realizing what the problem was the crew may have lowered the flaps that compounded the problem.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Thank you, finally someone with a clue.

"It was the pilot's fault because I saw a video and his flaps weren't down" ? Why do people who don't have a clue how to fly an airplane, post such things? It boggles my mind.

You surely have way more logged time than me, but anyone who flies has heard plenty of "stupid pilot tricks". Fortunately, today's planes of that sort, make it unlikely a pilot is going to make a stupid mistake.

Anything is possible, but I doubt the investigation is going to show the Pilot screwed up, all by himself.

Reporters "report" and run to find an expert to quoit , I would think that any reputable expert would qualify their answer as speculation with the need to wait for the results of the investigation but a wait and see answer doesn't get band width

[New Englander]

I don't know why it crashed. But the accident investigators will find out exactly why this horrible thing happened. Oh, I feel so bad for everyone who died and also for their families.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

You couldn't possibly have posted anything more irresponsible, than blaming someone for the deaths of 254+ people, based on viewing a Youtube video.

Do you have an FAA Airman's Certificate? Do you know not all airplanes use "flaps" for takeoff? Do you know the circumstances when flaps aren't used?

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

Happened upon a video of the 787 from behind taking off and crashing. Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway. 254+ killed.

Originally Posted by idlewild

From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.

I have an FAA Airman's Certificate and Instrument Rated and have been for 30 years ... and owned 2 airplanes. Are you licensed to fly an airplane or are you just assuming you know everything about them, because you've been on one?

Flaps are not used 100% of the time. Anyone who thinks they are, doesn't understand flying. Are they typically used on departure by large airplanes? Yep, but not always.

"The first officer should have retracted the landing gear ..... "? Says who? Do you know who was flying the airplane? "Normal, routine takeoff"? According to whom? What was the Density Altitude? Cross winds? W/B? Runway length? Obstacles? Any NOTAMS in effect? Fuel load? What's the MTOW of that airplane?

There is no one alive, who knows that happened in that airplane. Amateurs making uneducated guesses, based on Youtube videos, is ridiculous.

The odds of an airline pilot not knowing if his flaps were in the configuration he wanted (or was required to use), is minuscule. The odds of accidentally raising flaps, while intending to raise the landing gear ... similarly rare. This airplane was departing with a 2 pilot crew, one with an ATP and both of them Type Rated in that airplane.

If it turns out this was "human error", it was "Pilots' error" ... 2 pilots were flying that airplane.

As a previous poster (an ATP) pointed out. It's fairly difficult for 2 pilots to make an error in departure configuration. There are enough bells, whistles and warnings in today's airliners, to drive a pilot nuts. What people don't understand, are the computers that control modern aircraft are not there to "help the pilots", it's the other way around. The Pilots are there to help the computers in case something goes wrong.

[Velvet]

Findings to date:

‘No detailed timeline of relevant actions and indicators. No verbatim cockpit transcript. Instead, their (India’s official crash investigators) seeming intention was to focus a global audience on two facts. The fuel supply switches for the plane’s two engines were manually turned off about one second apart, just seconds after the plane left the runway. As the report states without identifying the speakers: “In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so.”’
WSJ July15/25

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

Little doubt it was pilot error. The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat

Originally Posted by idlewild

From what I have observed and read, this cause of the crash was most likely due to pilot error. Specifically, the first officer should have retracked the landing gear at about 50 feet following what appeared to be a normal routine takeoff. Instead, he/she most likely mistakenly retracted the flaps which lead to the loss of lift at the time when the landing gear should have normally been retracted. The pilot probably did not know this had happened and was unable to recover in time.

Nothing suggests power failure either due to a bird strike or engine failure nor do I think the flaps were set improperly (5%) for takeoff. Instead, I sadly believe it was due to the flaps being mistakenly retracted prematurely instead of the landing gear which lead to the loss of lift shortly after takeoff.

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

Flaps are used 100% of the time when an airliner takes off; the flaps on that flight were not down, which WOULD have provided additional lift, and the landing gear were still down, which ADDED a lot of additional drag. Something went bad wrong with that flight.

Originally Posted by Velvet

You are not the first one to make this observation. People I know agree with this. We shall see if this was the cause and whether the cause was pilot or mechanical.

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

The Mirror US

Aviation experts believe an issue with the wing flaps of an Air India plane that crashed in the Indian city of Ahmedabad may have played a role in the disaster.

After reviewing footage of the crash, aviation analyst Geoffrey Thomas told the BBC that "the undercarriage is still down but the flaps have been retracted."
...

Marco Chan, a former pilot and a senior lecturer at Buckinghamshire New University, told the outlet that the incident may "point to potential human error if flaps aren’t set correctly”

"It's very hard to say from the video for sure, it doesn't look as if the flaps are extended and that would be a perfectly obvious explanation for an aircraft not completing its take off correctly," he told the BBC.

Originally Posted by mikemalloy

From the video it appears that the wheels were not retracted after takeoff. Not realizing what the problem was the crew may have lowered the flaps that compounded the problem.

Originally Posted by talonip

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth

Originally Posted by Velvet

Findings to date:

The fuel supply switches for the plane’s two engines were manually turned off about one second apart, just seconds after the plane left the runway. As the report states without identifying the speakers: “In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so.”’

WSJ July15/25

No mention of "flaps". No mention of the airplane's take off configuration. No suggestion there was any pilot error. The most common of all airplane issues ... fuel starvation.

[Velvet]

The implication (from the full article) was towards pilot suicide, not error, if I am reading it correctly.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Velvet

The implication (from the full article) was towards pilot suicide, not error, I am reading it correctly.

I'm not sure where that conclusion comes from. That would be a stupid way to commit "pilot suicide".

In 2018 there was a Boeing/FAA Advisory, to check the operation of the locking mechanism on the Fuel Switches. It was advisory in nature, not a requirement. Air India never checked the switches.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Velvet

The implication (from the full article) was towards pilot suicide, not error, I am reading it correctly.

That looks more like mass murder than suicide.

[bmcgowan13]

Originally Posted by talonip

I was an airline pilot for 33 years and military for over 20. If the flaps or trims and other things were not set for takeoff correctly there are
very loud warnings in the cockpit when throttles are advanced for takeoff. Annoying WARNINGS.
Let the NTSB or Indian equivalent get the FDR and voice recorders and we will eventually get to the truth

Pilot since 1975 and 34 years hard-labor at ZBW.

This is the best (and only) answer...

TALONIP--"How's the ride?"