[Velvet]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There is no such thing as an FAA Airman's Certificate that only allows someone to fly a Cessna.

& I know about Cessna 150-152's, I landed one on the only FAA recognized Ice runway in the USA and have a few hours in a 150 Aerobat.

Okay, I see what you mean.

[Velvet]

I think the real issue might be, is that it is very hard for a pilot or anyone to accept, that after all the hours of training, and years of indoctrination of how you are responsible for all on board - that is why the manual over-ride - that a captain, a senior pilot, in this case over 200 people looked up to, to protect - would take them to their death.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I think the real issue might be, is that it is very hard for a pilot or anyone to accept, that after all the hours of training, and years of indoctrination of how you are responsible for all on board - that is why the manual over-ride - that a captain, a senior pilot, in this case over 200 people looked up to, to protect - would take them to their death.

Very hard to comprehend why someone would do something like this. They will have to do a very deep dive on the probable suspect's medical history.

[MorTech]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Can I safely assume all expert commenters have a Pilot's License and have actually flown an airplane?

Why would that even matter? Does that license mean you know how to fly a 787? It is just simple data analysis from the flight data recorder. It doesn't take a "license"...just common sense and reasoning. The non-flying pilot retracts the landing gear since the flying pilot is laser focused at takeoff.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by MorTech

Why would that even matter? Does that license mean you know how to fly a 787? It is just simple data analysis from the flight data recorder. It doesn't take a "license"...just common sense and reasoning. The non-flying pilot retracts the landing gear since the flying pilot is laser focused at takeoff.

"I've never done it and don't know how to do it, but I know you what the Pilots did wrong and I know how".

"I've never flown an airplane, but I've read news reports and know how to analyze flight data recorder".

Common sense and reasoning?

2 ATP rated professional pilots have commented on the thread and offered professional opinions that contradict the amateur opinions being expressed. A professional aircraft safety investigator has been quoted as saying there's no evidence this was a "suicide" crash ... but that doesn't seem to deter the rampant speculation.

Only on TOTV.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

"I've never done it and don't know how to do it, but I know you what the Pilots did wrong and I know how".

"I've never flown an airplane, but I've read news reports and know how to analyze flight data recorder".

Common sense and reasoning?

2 ATP rated professional pilots have commented on the thread and offered professional opinions that contradict the amateur opinions being expressed. A professional aircraft safety investigator has been quoted as saying there's no evidence this was a "suicide" crash ... but that doesn't seem to deter the rampant speculation.

Only on TOTV.

No, not only on TOTV. The "appeal to authority" and "ad hominem" logical fallacies occur many times outside TOTV also.

2 ATP rated professional pilots (I only noticed one in the thread) clearly have some expertise in flying a plane but unless they have engineered, programmed, maintained, or flown the 787 they don't necessarily have expertise in analyzing the cause of an incident. Beyond that, I don't believe even the one provided a professional opinion that contradicted anyone; he/she simply suggested we would learn more when the official investigation had concluded.

Conversely, the lack of a commercial license does not make one incapable of analyzing the available data. "Expert" is a word generally used to identify an individual with a certification or documented experience and while the awarding of a certificate is taken to be evidence of knowledge, the absence of a certificate does not prove a lack of knowledge. A picture of a cockpit was presented with the challenge to find the cutoff switch - that was actually very simple and doesn't require anything like an ATP rating. Underestimating another's knowledge (or overestimating one's own) is often a mistake.

[Velvet]

Further recent update:

The United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said on Friday that media reports on the reasons behind the Air India Boeing Dreamliner crash which killed 270 were speculative and premature.

And:

The AAIB (Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau | Ministry of Civil Aviation) is investigating the crash, the deadliest aviation incident in a decade, along with Boeing and experts from the US and United Kingdom. A preliminary report from the investigators released on Saturday found the aircraft had been deemed airworthy, had up-to-date maintenance and carried no hazardous cargo.

But the report noted that a 2018 US Federal Aviation Administration advisory warned of a potential flaw in the fuel-control switch system of some Boeing planes, including the Dreamliner. The report said Air India did not inspect the system and it was not mandatory for it to do so.

Aljazeera July17/25

I will, personally, withhold my conclusions about what happened on the flight. (I really, really hope it was not pilot caused.)

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Further recent update:

The United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said on Friday that media reports on the reasons behind the Air India Boeing Dreamliner crash which killed 270 were speculative and premature.

And:

The AAIB (Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau | Ministry of Civil Aviation) is investigating the crash, the deadliest aviation incident in a decade, along with Boeing and experts from the US and United Kingdom. A preliminary report from the investigators released on Saturday found the aircraft had been deemed airworthy, had up-to-date maintenance and carried no hazardous cargo.

But the report noted that a 2018 US Federal Aviation Administration advisory warned of a potential flaw in the fuel-control switch system of some Boeing planes, including the Dreamliner. The report said Air India did not inspect the system and it was not mandatory for it to do so.

Aljazeera July17/25

I will, personally, withhold my conclusions about what happened on the flight. (I really, really hope it was not pilot caused.)

I would be a lot more worried about the safety on planes in India or traveling from India if this were some kind of mechanical problem rather than a human resource failure.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Just a matter of time that the assumed truth comes out. Not sure of the legal system in India. Imagine the lawsuits if this happened in USA with an American carrier.


From WA Post

Medical records for an Air India pilot killed in last month’s crash were reportedly turned over to investigators amid reports he’d been suffering from depression and other mental health issues.

Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, 56, was the lead pilot when the London-bound Boeing 787 Dreamliner went down in Ahmedabad on June 12, killing 241 people on board and leaving just one survivor.

Sabharwal, who had more than 15,000 flying hours under his belt at the time of the tragedy, had taken medical leave in recent years due to apparent mental health woes, the Telegraph reported.

[MorTech]

Another possibility is the pilots were distracted by the engines spinning down so they didn't call for gear up. The odds of two engines failing are astronomical but not zero.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

Just a matter of time that the assumed truth comes out. Not sure of the legal system in India. Imagine the lawsuits if this happened in USA with an American carrier.


From WA Post

Medical records for an Air India pilot killed in last month’s crash were reportedly turned over to investigators amid reports he’d been suffering from depression and other mental health issues.

Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, 56, was the lead pilot when the London-bound Boeing 787 Dreamliner went down in Ahmedabad on June 12, killing 241 people on board and leaving just one survivor.

Sabharwal, who had more than 15,000 flying hours under his belt at the time of the tragedy, had taken medical leave in recent years due to apparent mental health woes, the Telegraph reported.

Some have suggested the possibility of an intentional act, depressed doesn't necessarily equate with being homicidal, but certainly being distracted

[Velvet]

Distracted? How could you pull on a switch to push it down for cut-off. Then a second later, pull on the other switch and push it down, and not realize what you are doing? Just curious.

[New Englander]

Maybe someday it will be possible "Black Box" will have video of what Pilots were doing during prior to a disasters like this.

[sunnyFLORIDA5828]

Originally Posted by New Englander

Maybe someday it will be possible "Black Box" will have video of what Pilots were doing during prior to a disasters like this.

Totally agree. Absolutely zero reason why this can’t be policy. Some airlines have video of the cabin but don’t record. Good safety measure IMO. I would bet the Pilots union is/has protested a cockpit video system. Privacy. But it’s a workplace and that’s common in USA. So be it. But those that will not/cannot face facts re the India crash and that a pilot deliberately turned off both engines… can’t handle the truth.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

The wing flaps were not in takeoff/landing position. Virtually flat. And the plane apparently stalled shortly after wheels off the runway.

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

The Straits Times logo

Air India plane crash draws attention to flaps and landing gear

Mr Mann said the flaps appeared to be incorrectly positioned, adding that trying to belatedly adjust the flaps could lead to an aerodynamic stall.

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

The Mirror US

Expert spots terrifying warning sign moments before Air India Boeing plane crash

Aviation experts believe an issue with the wing flaps of an Air India plane that crashed in the Indian city of Ahmedabad may have played a role in the disaster.

Originally Posted by sunnyFLORIDA5828

But those that will not/cannot face facts re the India crash and that a pilot deliberately turned off both engines… can’t handle the truth.

So you've changed your mind? It wasn't the "flaps" and the improper configuration? Now it was Pilot turned off the engines?