[Russ_Boston]

Originally Posted by gfmucci

Like rose bushes and toxic weeds, people who mock whatever "values" we have left won't be on my agenda, either.

I don't mean to pick on gfmucci but it got me thinking about values in our country. On this website I read an awful lot about how earlier generations were kinder or more courteous or had more character. Usually the writer is referring to his/her own generation as being the best at it. Maybe that is natural but...

If you think about it what you are saying is that your grandparents and great grandpareants etc. were WORSE at it than you. And since your generation every new one has gotten WORSE at it. So what you are saying when you spout this crap is that ONLY your generation knew any manners or had any character or morals. At what point did these values stop growing? When your generation was born?

I don't feel that way. I know of many young people who live a very moral and decent life and participate in society in many beneficial ways. I think back to my early childhood and I saw bathrooms labeled 'whites only' or race riots in Detroit. Or women making one half or 3/4 of what men made in the same jobs. A woman executive was hard to find. Or young men being drafted into a war that they didn't feel was right just because the government said so. The list goes on and on.

I'm not so sure that our values were any better 'back in the day'.

"Just my opinion - I might be wrong" - [Dennis Miller].

[redwitch]

I think every generation has its good and its bad. I honestly think my parents' ethics and values were better than my generation's. We started out right but something happened in the 60s and 70s -- while we forced many good changes (Jim Crow laws, equal rights), we also took away some basic family ethics. The next generation saw too much of "me" and not enough of "us" because both parents worked, things became important, the not my business attitude. My daughter's generation is an interesting mix -- many are very altruistic; many are complete and total slackers.

It does seem that kids of today expect things to be handed to them. They got a C in history, fight it and get it knocked up to an A, regardless of what was earned. They do something wrong and their parents are quick to defend them, blame the other kid who was involved, blame anyone but their own child. This makes it hard to learn responsibility. Yet, these same kids manage to grow up and become wonderful, responsible adults. So, obviously, they are learning true values somewhere along the line.

What I find disappointing is that someone will know a thing is wrong and do it anyway or not do the right thing because it is easier, cheaper, whatever. This seems to cross generational lines nowadays -- when I was growing up, your word was your bond. Not today. I've seen it in children, teens, young adults, the middleaged and the elderly. I don't like it and I don't understand it. So, I don't think it is necessarily a generation thing but rather an era and this era (starting with at least the late 70s) seems to be of the type that you get what you want however you can.

[Russ_Boston]

Good points Red. Perhaps it does related to eras. Prosperity (of the era), or lack of, may also shape things as well.

[Peggy D]

Well put Red.

I have noticed over the years a total lack of respect by children and young adults.

Never would we ever think of talking back to our parents, teachers, or any other adult for that matter. Yet, you see or hear of this happening every day. I have to say that I feel part of this is due to both parents working and not enough "family time" in the home.
We sat at the table and ate our meals--not in front of the TV.

Life now is too fast paced.

Sometimes I do wonder about the future generation--some "Just don't get it"--and neither do their parents.

[efrahin]

My opinion in the subject is that everything started in the 60's with the hippies, drugs, woodstock, the pill, women liberation, etc. The family values were down the hill. The moment women went out to work and the kids were home alone without supervision: hell broke loose. And we are looking at the results today. I am not against women: I have 5 grandaughters, but I am pro family which is what we have destroyed.

I think you are all right about your feelings but I personally feel everything went bad about 15 years ago when a mother was arrested for trying to discipline her son in the grocery store. He would not stop picking on his sister and after many warnings she slapped him. A shopper seen this and called the police. The child was around 11 or 12. She was arrested for child abuse. That is ridiculous. One slap after 10 warnings. My father, rest his soul, would still be in jail if that was the yardstick in my generation. I was beat just for looking at him wrong. Children now have the right to divorce their parents. The judges and legal system are greatly to blame. IMHO.......

[Mikitv]

I worked when my children were growing up. Sometimes it was full time and sometimes part time. We always found time to give our children quality time and values. They grew up knowing that they had choices and they would have to live with those consequences. They were disciplined but hardly ever because they knew what was expected of them. We tried to be good role models and give them rules to live by. It is not the quantity of time but the quality of time spent with your family. I find today that parents let the children make the rules and they give into them because it is easier. There does seem to be a lack of responsibility and respect today in our world. I am lucky that I was able to work and had good sitters and schools for my children.

[renielarson]

I'm going to try not to make any recommendations, suggestions, or points of view (Well, guess I do, but I really tried hard not to.). As a 3rd grade teacher I just want to give my opinions from teaching children since 1971.

1. Nowadays, there is a definite lack of respect. Children talk back, interrupt, debate, and argue with peers and adults with no second thoughts.

2. There are no fear of consequences. Parents are too afraid to discipline their children for fear of abuse charges and schools cannot legally discipline beyond "talking" and trying to "reason."

3. Television and video games have replaced board games and reading resulting in children not developing creativity and imagination. The fast action kids are used to has negative effects on their concentration. This is due, in part, to parents who need to work in order to provide for the family and not have the energy, patience, nor time to nurture their children for their betterment. Furthermore, with more one parent families, lack of time, energy, and patience is more common nowadays. I'm not saying that one parent families are bad, just that there not as much time to devote to children because of commitments and time restraints..

4. Parents accuse authority and/or schools of being the "bad guys." Children are not held accountable! Parents make excuses for their children's behavior and/or performance...being it legal or academic. This results in children not being held responsible for their actions or their achievement. If a child is not meeting expectations, parents put the blame on the law/school/teacher. There are social/curriculum objectives to be met and yet the child is rarely held accountable. If the child breaks the law, there seems to be always an excuse given by the parent/s. And even when schools or law enforcement agencies provide additional resources, interventions, one on one interactions, it is still "our" fault if the child is not performing as acceptable or on grade level or not meeting expectations. Parents do not accept the fact that perhaps their child is not following the law, putting forth effort, staying on task, or is learning disabled.

Ok...enough for now yet I have more opinions.

[nONIE]

Bright, I am not a teacher but I am so in agreement with all of your points.

There is something to be said for the old biblical adage,"spare the rod, and spoil the child" Im not a believer in hitting necessarily, but I dont think
A little good old fashioned fear and respect ever hurt any of us in our childhood days.

[redwitch]

I think one thing that has truly hurt our children and grandchildren is the desire to be friends with the child. I always felt my daughter had friends. She needed me to be her mother. It was up to me to discipline her, be a good role model, teach her the values I felt were important. I couldn't do this if I was her buddy.

I watched many of the parents of her peers be so busy being friends to their children, their children had nowhere to turn when they needed guidance -- the school staff was too busy, overcrowded; teachers are afraid to spend one-on-one time with a student because of false accusations; church was given lip service, so religious leaders were not turned to. Kids turn to their friends and compare notes and decide that way what should or should not be done.

So, this, to me, is a large problem with today's generation. Of course, that doesn't explain why so many of our generation has tossed ethics and morals out the window. I was raised in the 50s. My foundation was based on honesty, trust, responsibility. That didn't change because I was in my teens and 20s in the 60s and 70s. It does seem the greed factor has become the rule of the day -- I've got mine and it doesn't matter how I got it.

Think how many of our politicians have been accused (and frequently convicted) of insider trading, fraud, etc. Athletes win by cheating and are lauded as heroes. Entertainers are in and out of rehab centers. So long as we admire those who cheat and lie and steal to get ahead, we, as a society, lose.

[renielarson]

I feel parents should provide a window for their children to feel "safe" when needing to talk. However, I feel the parent's role should not be as a "friend". That is reserved for peers.

[redwitch]

Totally agree, Bright. My daughter knew she could come to me with anything and I would happily discuss it without judgment (even if I was cringing inside). It was kind of like if you or your friends have been drinking or using drugs, call me and I'll come get you. We can discuss it when I have cooled down and you have straightened up. I didn't need to be her friend to listen to her or to go get her. I needed to be her mother.

[Russ_Boston]

I'm in agreement with many of thoughts expressed. But let's remember that it is not just a generational thing. As RED says many of today's politicians and leaders who have been accused of financial mistakes etc. are from the previous generations. They are already in their 50's, 60's, 70's. So the point I'm making is that they were taught by the same teachers, parents etc. that we were. How you turn out in life isn't always about how you were raised. There are bad apples in every generation. I do see a declining lack of discipline (physical and otherwise) with our kids but this has probably been declining for hundreds of years yet we've been able to prosper as a country.

Quick story:

When I coached soccer for 10 years or so I was always given the B team all stars. Every year my last pick was a 'good' kid who had good parents, always said 'yes sir' and the like. He was the first to arrive for practice and the last to leave. Wasn't the star player and probably didn't deserve to be on any travel all star team (A, B or C) yet I picked him because of his drive, spirit and teamwork.

Two days ago he was arrested for intent to distribute drugs in a school zone among many other charges. I found out that this is his third strike. He is 21 years old! The minimum sentence for the crime is 10 years.

I've seen this type of thing way too often - You can NEVER tell how someone will turn out by judging the parenting techniques of his/her parents or how polite the child is. You can only do the best that you can do.

[redwitch]

To put things in some perspective, think of this quote:

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."

Sadly, I can't find the complete text but it was said by Socrates, the Greek philosopher (469 BC - 399 BC). If the Greeks had these complaints about their children and teens, something tells me our complaints about ethics, morals, etc. are just as ancient and ongoing.

[billethkid]

It is all a function of our evolution toward permissive pacifism, political correctness, special interest group catering, the abandoning of the majority rules, complete lack of involvement in the defining of right or wrong and right VS wrong and by all means thou shalt not offend anybody, eh.

We are in a constant state of watering our core values down to a point where, anything goes.

Lower standards in schools. Lower standards in the military....they can't even deal with the bad actors anymore. Even with the lower standards look at the terrible graduation percentage decline across the US.

What previous generations had going for them was they were able to discipline for the violation of what was right. That concept is gone!!!!!

And the saddest fact of all.....the majority would prefer to have better values.


No mystery what the problem is.

BTK