[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................

Boy Howdy and oh my.

Lots needed Bill.

[paulandjean]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................

Then join in.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by CycleChic

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

Originally Posted by skyc6

Bullying can go on everywhere, but the most important part of the bullying equation is not the bully or the victim. It is teaching the "bystanders" what to do. If a 5 or 6 of them call the bully out and calmly, without threatening, tell the bully that what he/she is doing is wrong, makes them look foolish, or humorously sort of gently laugh the bully out of the room, it can be very powerful. Sometimes these clubs can be advocates for any student who needs help in handling difficult situations, and teaches tolerance for all differences.
A LGBT club is not involved with promoting their situations, but rather it helps to teach them how to function in a world where they are in the minority. It is a club open to anyone, and sometimes who are not LGBT will join and become an advocate for students wh need help.
There is also a MS/HS organization call Natural Helpers that many schools have and this type of club can be a great benefit to students.
To say only curriculum clubs should be allowed doesn't recognize that we need to educate the whole child, and that includes the emotional, social, intellectual, and physical. All those areas are necessary to function in our society as young adults.

Amen and Amen! Thank you for those articulate responses.

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by CarolSells

Thank you! I've been waiting all-thread long for someone to say this! Seems to me that many schools have their plates full just trying to teach the three R's today! And there is so much more to teach today! My granddaughter is in Kindergarten. Her classroom is all about computers and technology and learning. (She happens to be reading on a 3rd grade level!)

I believe that schools should be allowed to discipline students but the issue of bullying is a parenting problem!

Hold these "support" groups off campus!

I SO disagree with this. Most parents don't even know their kids are bullying, because it's taking place in school, or after school on the bus, or out of their viewing in the neighborhood playground. You can think you're doing the most wonderful job of raising your kids, but you absolutely don't know everything they're doing. I repeat my earlier statement: bullies evolve from a certain personality type. If you're not following your child around day, you may not know he or she is bullying. If the school doesn't step up to stop this problem, it's going to continue.

I have had personal experience with this when our younger son was new to his school way back when (fourth grade). The school refused to help. The parents of the bullier were the nicest people but had their heads in the sand toward this problem with their child. We had to take our own steps to avoid this kid and protect our child physically and emotionally.

This is a school matter and needs to be addressed by the school. Parents of bullyers will not step up unless the school steps in.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Originally Posted by CFrance

I SO disagree with this. Most parents don't even know their kids are bullying, because it's taking place in school, or after school on the bus, or out of their viewing in the neighborhood playground. You can think you're doing the most wonderful job of raising your kids, but you absolutely don't know everything they're doing. I repeat my earlier statement: bullies evolve from a certain personality type. If you're not following your child around day, you may not know he or she is bullying. If the school doesn't step up to stop this problem, it's going to continue.

I have had personal experience with this when our younger son was new to his school way back when (fourth grade). The school refused to help. The parents of the bullier were the nicest people but had their heads in the sand toward this problem with their child. We had to take our own steps to avoid this kid and protect our child physically and emotionally.

This is a school matter and needs to be addressed by the school. Parents of bullyers will not step up unless the school steps in.

I agree...and I am in shock at all of the naïveté shown on some of these posts. Did not most of our children grow up in the 80's and 90's.....and were we not children of the 60's and 70's???? Does no one else remember the reality of all of this?????

I remember my childhood and teen years....and I know the stories my children now tell of theirs...something's I already knew....something's I did not want to know....regardless....nothing shocks me anymore. However I still want my grandchildren to know the real life.

I want them to know the bullies are wrong and that we should defend those that are being mistreated. I want them to LOVE all people no matter who they are....no matter what they look like or what religion they practice or who they are married to or what color they are!!!!

I want them to live a life of honor and love and acceptance.....but I want them to be knowledgeable about life and I want them to know what reality...how is it that no one else remembers that last 50 years???

[ilovetv]

From what I have seen, a pro-active, smart, capable school principal and assistants can stop bullies in their tracks and put them out of business fast....if they want to and don't bury their heads in the sand.

And strong disciplinarian principals and assistants also MUST back up the classroom teacher in stopping the bully in the classroom and playground, and the principals must actively respond to reports of bullies on the bus, too.

These are all situations in which the parents of the victim cannot do much for their child and they HAVE to rely on the principals and assistants for such help. The administrators need to have the authority restored to them to take strong disciplinary measures against bullying.

I think that strong administrators can do a whole lot more to nip bullying in the bud than kids empathizing with each other and learning tactics for standing up to the bullies, in a club. That's not to say they should have the empathy nor learn to defend themselves, but to say that the adults in charge of the school are both responsible for stopping it and are in a much better position to deal with the bully than parents and victims are.

[buggyone]

I saw an article on this Gay Alliance Club in the Orlando Sentinel today. The girl who wants to start it was pictured with her mother and some other supporters. The girl was identified by picture and name - and the article said she is a 14 year old bisexual.

I know I am not alone when I say it is way too young for a 14 year old girl to be identified as a bisexual. I am assuming that the 14 year old girl has had sexual partners of both male and female so as to know she considers herself to be bisexual. They should not even know if they are at that young an age. Even in Florida, a 14 year old cannot give consent for sex. I know I will receive postings about this saying I do not know what I am talking about.

What is the girl's mother doing supporting her daughter's sexual activity at age 14? Ridiculous!

I also will get postings about what I am now going to say. I believe that a person's sexuality is a result of "nurture" and not of "nature". I do not believe that a gay or lesbian person is born that way. It is from the nurturing they receive one way or another or from an incident(s) that happened.

No where in this posting will you see anything from me that is homophobic so please do not get on me about that. I celebrate all diversity.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Perhaps not homophobic but you must not know any lgbt people....and if you know, you do not know them well. I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

And as for a 14 year old knowing she is attracted to both girls and boys.....why is that any different than a 14 yr old boy knowing he likes girls or a girl liking a boy....they clearly know they are attracted or that they like them....but does that mean they have had sex with them? Ridiculous!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Tellmeyourstory....

Perhaps not homophobic but you must not know any lgbt people....and if you know, you do not know them well. I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process.

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.

[skyc6]

Originally Posted by Tellmeyourstory....

I agree...and I am in shock at all of the naïveté shown on some of these posts. Did not most of our children grow up in the 80's and 90's.....and were we not children of the 60's and 70's???? Does no one else remember the reality of all of this?????

I remember my childhood and teen years....and I know the stories my children now tell of theirs...something's I already knew....something's I did not want to know....regardless....nothing shocks me anymore. However I still want my grandchildren to know the real life.

I want them to know the bullies are wrong and that we should defend those that are being mistreated. I want them to LOVE all people no matter who they are....no matter what they look like or what religion they practice or who they are married to or what color they are!!!!

I want them to live a life of honor and love and acceptance.....but I want them to be knowledgeable about life and I want them to know what reality...how is it that no one else remembers that last 50 years???

Bullying and teaching tolerance should be a part of every school's curriculum. Our suicide rate is escalating every year, and some of it stems from bullying. Victims of bullies have become violent and found guns to do damage with. Some of this could be prevented!
Sometimes all that needs to happen is a teacher taking the time to explain to the whole class, with the victim and bully present, why some people bully. When you explain that bullies are very insecure people with emotoinal concerns, who don't quite feel that they measure up and therefore take their frustrations out on someone they think will not retaliate, without naming any names, it can free up the rest of the kids to discuss how to handle the situation. The bully will have to sit there and listen, but of course no names are used. You can even do role playing with certain age groups, and call on the bully to play the part of the victim. It is eye opening!
There are many ways to address this in earlier years, but if it isn't addressed until middle school, you have an angry preteen on your hands, and a more difficult job to do, but it still needs to be addressed.
As far as sex education, it is only information. There is always a prescribed curriculum, and information and knowledge does not cause harm; lack of information can cause much more harm. Understanding correct terms and basic biology is not going to hurt a child. If the information is over their heads, they filter it out and don't recall it very well. I always felt that if the child has the question, they deserve an answer.

[Suzi]

To call yourself bi-sexual implies you ARE sexual with males and females. We are not talking attraction/friends/confidants etc. I'm not sure bragging about any "sexuality" is appropriate for a 14 year old boy or girl but what concern me more, is the picture of the girl. I think this is a travesty to have a child's picture plastered for everyone to see, gossip about etc. We have rules in this country to protect children - and thats even if they don't want protection. Do we publish pictures of children who have been abused, injured, famous parents? No, we always protect their identity. This is needless EXPOSURE of a child - yes a 14 year old child! An article OK - but pictures are criminal.

I applaud everyone who has shared their feelings about this topic. This is a good discourse about timely subjects.

[skyc6]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.

I quite agree with Gracie! Tolerance has to be predicated on respect for those who think differently than you.
I have experienced the wonderful respect students can have for sensitive topics, if the correct tone and expectations are set beforehand. It really is possible to help young people to become responsible caring adults by helping them understand complex issues.
I have said quite enough and so I say Goodnight!

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.

You nailed it with that paragraph Gracie. Some of us not believing in Fact makes it hard to open our eyes to reality. Fact should not be based on what we like, but rather on what is TRUE.

[buggyone]

" I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process. "

It would have been reasonable for the poster to disagree with me in a scholarly way (like GracieGirl and GolfingNut) but that poster lost all credibility with their rant of my viewpoint. This is supposed to be a forum where all can post their viewpoints.

Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I do thank Gracie for her kind comments about me. That is enough for me on this subject. Next subject, please.