[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Some wish to know God, and read in hope...and post wanting an answer....
some snipe at the words that convict them of evil.

Psalms 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Bill Tasker

I couldn't agree more with Gracie. If you are not religious or faithful than why are you even looking at Kitty's post. Just move on. The world has become such a snarky place.

Bill" did Jesus just go to places where people believed or were faithful to his word? What is the point of a thread unless you can get a broad reference in which to debate? If an OP is certain of his topic then why feel threatened or upset if one has the diametric point of view. today's announcement by artificial sweetners is a good example. Experts once again are doing a 360.

Disagreement does not indicate anything more than disagreement about the subject matter. it is not a direct rejection of the opposing person. We all seek truth. If an OP only wants those that agree then please place in big block letters if you don't agree with me don't apply I only want people who agree I'm right to respond

[onslowe]

Rubicon, I very much respect and most often agree generally with your comments and views. Not here. What I think Gracie and Bill are reacting to ( and I am with them) is the fact that there's no debate here. Debates are respectful. Launching into ad hominem assaults (direct or by implication) are not worthy to be in a debate. Debates are an exercise for reasonably educated and sufficiently well read persons, and are conducted with civility.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but what sort of strange new debating tool is "Wtf?"

[kittygilchrist]

Just let the op say, everybody bring all opinions. Say it how your gut brings it. Jesus did not shrink from humanity. Otherwise he would have rejected me.

Hey, did u hear this? Fox says Isis came over the us/mex border...duh. Who did not see that coming?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by onslowe

Rubicon, I very much respect and most often agree generally with your comments and views. Not here. What I think Gracie and Bill are reacting to ( and I am with them) is the fact that there's no debate here. Debates are respectful. Launching into ad hominem assaults (direct or by implication) are not worthy to be in a debate. Debates are an exercise for reasonably educated and sufficiently well read persons, and are conducted with civility.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but what sort of strange new debating tool is "Wtf?"

onslowe: see your opposing view just alerted me to a point of view that escaped me. Further I didn't know what WTF meant and had to ask. I was sent a PM and after reading it was red faced. I am one of those individuals they does not swear. Just believe there are too many beautiful words in our language. thank you for the heads up

[onslowe]

Originally Posted by rubicon

onslowe: see your opposing view just alerted me to a point of view that escaped me. Further I didn't know what WTF meant and had to ask. I was sent a PM and after reading it was red faced. I am one of those individuals they does not swear. Just believe there are too many beautiful words in our language. thank you for the heads up

You sir, are and always have been a class act here.

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by rubicon

onslowe: see your opposing view just alerted me to a point of view that escaped me. Further I didn't know what WTF meant and had to ask. I was sent a PM and after reading it was red faced. I am one of those individuals they does not swear. Just believe there are too many beautiful words in our language. thank you for the heads up

Yep. I looked back over thread knowing ur innocent, Rub...
I of course, was taught to swear while crawling. Everybody stop smacking each other, please.

See how disturbing it is just to suggest prayer? We have an enemy, whom we vastly, vastly underestimate.

[Sophie11]

When you separate the wheat from the chaff, you select what is useful or valuable and reject what is useless or worthless. Amazing how easy to tell the wheat from the chaff in the last few years!

[Bgreuter]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

When an innocent, defenseless person is on his knees with hands and feet bound, and the ISIS executioner has his knife ready to cut his head off, the victim will be praying, not "working".

I have to agree.

[Bgreuter]

Originally Posted by Gramps666

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.

Sometimes, like any good Father, he says No.

[Ninanina]

Originally Posted by Gramps666

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.

Well I prayed and prayed and prayed and he still died.

My DH studied for a few years to be a priest and he truly believed. That brings me comfort . I still believe and I still have hope.

Your question about playing favorites has haunted me. I guess I will find the answer in another life.

I have enjoyed reading all your comments. You make me think. I have to admit that I had to goggle WTF. That was new to me!

[Gramps666]

Originally Posted by Bgreuter

Sometimes, like any good Father, he says No.

Why, when He tells us all we have to do is ask and it shall be given, would He then turn around and say NO. Mark 11:24; John 14:14; Matthew 18:19.

And then I have to ask, Why does God hate amputees? They certainly have been prayed for over and over again. Yet He refuses to let a single one regrow their limbs. If He can cure leprosy, give sight to the blind, raise the dead, etc. why does He refuse to help a single amputee?

And one more question to chew on. If He is such a GOOD FATHER why does he condemn many of his children to eternal punishment for being "bad"? If a child of mine was bad (or even rejected me) I would continue to love them and wish them nothing but happiness. But not our GOOD FATHER. He hides from us and then condemns us to fire and brimstone if we question His existence. GOOD FATHER?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Gramps666

Mark 11:24 "Therefore, I say unto you, Whatever things ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."
John 14:14 "If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Sounds to me like anything which is asked for will be given. But then again I understand that the Bible is so ambiguous and contradictory anyone can use it to support any position they want.

Gramps, your bitterness is evident. You certainly can believe or disbelieve anything you want. Kitty is a sincere woman who started this thread for her good reasons.

There will always be people who debate the existence of God. They are usually among our brightest people, our most questioning, our most focused, our clear eyed doers. At times I have been among them, but I see no good in saying scathing things to kind and loving people.

Religion can be any number of things, but unless it is extreme and full of hate it seems to be a very good thing to direct us toward responsibility to others and remind us that life on earth is sometimes very short. Karl Marx called it the opium of the people. Well then that isn't so awful. It is better to me to have religion to comfort than staggering drunk around Lake Sumter Landing to escape the sadness and fear we all have at times.

So to each his own beliefs. I just have trouble with the hatred that is becoming far too common against decent people who want to turn to God.

[Sophie11]

We are all going to live forever. We are a spirit living on earth getting an experience. GOD did give us an instruction book on how to do this but because of pride people do not read it. Read your Bibles and start with the book of JOHN. Sometimes I wonder if we were all cast to earth to get over ourselves!

[Gramps666]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Gramps, your bitterness is evident. You certainly can believe or disbelieve anything you want. Kitty is a sincere woman who started this thread for her good reasons.

There will always be people who debate the existence of God. They are usually among our brightest people, our most questioning, our most focused, our clear eyed doers. At times I have been among them, but I see no good in saying scathing things to kind and loving people.

Religion can be any number of things, but unless it is extreme and full of hate it seems to be a very good thing to direct us toward responsibility to others and remind us that life on earth is sometimes very short. Karl Marx called it the opium of the people. Well then that isn't so awful. It is better to me to have religion to comfort than staggering drunk around Lake Sumter Landing to escape the sadness and fear we all have at times.

So to each his own beliefs. I just have trouble with the hatred that is becoming far too common against decent people who want to turn to God.

Gracie, not bitter at all. I've been on the conservative Christian side. Gone to Bible study, week-end retreats, etc. I would just like the people who claim that the Bible is their guide to really know what ALL of the Bible has to say. When I hear something like "Family Values" thrown around it reminds me of the story of Lot. Not when his wife was turned to salt, but later. When he had sex with his daughters. And God rewarded this by giving him a son (or grandson) with each of his daughters.
And don't just call me bitter. I know that's a way to easily dismiss me but think about some of the questions I have. In a modern society I would think most people should have the same questions. I would like some answers other than the Lord works in strange and mysterious ways.
Believe me, having been on the other side, I think of this often. And the more I think, the more I'm convinced that there are a lot of people who prefer to stay in Fantasy Land than live in reality. Just trying to wake up the general public.
And I appreciate Kitty opening up this forum for discussion. I look forward to raising more questions.