So you're saying if he was an average Joe working as an auto mechanic making 75K/year he shouldn't be able to be an auto mechanic again and should earn less? To take it one step further do you think all convicted felons should not be able to go back to the status they had after the have done their time? There wouldn't be much incentive for rehabilitation if they didn't have a chance at leading a reasonable normal life. Isn't that what it's all about?

Good point GeorgeT. "stupid is as stupid does" (No particular meaning but I feel like I had to insert a Forrest Gump quote)
Read post 39.

Logic
 

It would seem logical that if someone actually tourted and abused an
animal they should be identified, (e.g.sexual offenders, etc.). They have
deomonstrated a lack of a moral compass and it would be reasonable to
assume this lack would not be restricted to (a) animals and (b) stopped
as soon as they were released after a year and a half?
I don't think I would feel comfortable living next door to a person who
was so lacking in feelings and conscience as to easily watch animals be
abused and killed and in fact be a active participant in such a horrible
activity..:spoken:

In response to a) Yes, he did demonstrate a lack of moral compass and that's why he went to prison but to say just because he beat dogs that it would escalate to humans is ridiculous. That's like saying a guy who robs a candy store will rob a bank when he get's out.
In response to b) it stopped as soon as he was caught.

I get that you're passionate about this subject and I agree that what he did was wrong but some of your assumptions are out there.

And please stop with the :spoken: nonsense. It makes you sound as if you're the only one with an opinion that counts here and no one else's means anything.

Life really is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get. (Unless it has one of those little maps on the top! Do chocolates come with those any more?

pennbf - how do you know who you are living next to now? do you run background checks on your neighbors? would you feel comfortable living next door to a rapist or a cat burglar or an embezzler? are their crimes not as distasteful? i think i'd be less comfortable living next to or even down the street from one of them rather than vick!

C'mon Russ, 1975 was 36 years ago, cut him some slack buddy.

Why defend Vick
 

Just curious, why do some people feel compelled to defend Vick? :confused:

Nobody is defending him. We all agree what he did was wrong. What we are defending is the United States justice system.

sounds more like you & some others just disagree with others expressing contempt of him.

Yes, Rose knew the rules but at the time he broke them, the penalty was not ineligibility for the Hall of Fame. In fact it wasn’t until two years after he agreed to ‘ineligibility to work in MLB' that the Hall of Fame made it ineligible for induction.

Pete Rose broke an MLB league rule, Michael Vic committed an inhumane felony.

I was going to stay out of this. Honest, I was. But I just can't. I loathe what Michael Vicks did. Anyone who knows me knows that I adore animals and would rather cut off my right hand than deliberately hurt one. However, I was not raised in Vicks' culture. I was raised that animals were beloved pets, they were to be cherished and well-taken care of. I was taught that animals should not be used for entertainment (was even raised that circuses were not okay) I was most certainly not taught that an animal that failed to entertain should die.

Vicks was raised in that culture. He was taught that dog fighting was acceptable. He was taught that killing a dog who did not perform was acceptable. He was taught that an animal had no redeeming value and, thus, the manner of death of irrelevant.

He was punished for his actions. Maybe not as much as many would like. Maybe not as severely as many would like. But, even one day in prison is not easy. Imagine knowing that someone can make you strip, search your body cavities and you have no right to stop them. Imagine being told when to get up, when to go to bed, when to eat (and what to eat). Imagine sleeping in a cell with no privacy. That is not a life I would care to live -- not even for one day, let alone 15 months. Our legal system deemed that his punishment was sufficient. Honestly, I've heard of cases where the torture of an animal was much more severe and the criminal was given a minor fine and no jail time. I know of one instance where a 19 YO deliberately burned a cat alive. His punishment was $250 and one weekend cleaning up garbage. That, to me, is an obscenity and a travesty of justice. At least Vicks did some real time.

Whether we like it or not, the criminal justice system does not place a high value on animal cruelty. I was surprised he was sentenced to and served as much time as he did. I think the reality is that had it been anyone but Michael Vicks (or another celebrity), the punishment would have been far less.

To me, the bigger issue is: Did Michael Vicks learn anything? From what I have seen and read since he was released from prison, I think so. He has spoken at many schools, not just in Atlanta and Philadelphia, but while on the road. He speaks about the unspeakable acts he committed, his regret, his understanding of how horrific his acts were. He no longer has to do this, but still does. That, to me, speaks volumes.

He still contributes large sums to animal rights foundations, especially the ASPCA. Again, he has paid his fines. He does not have to contribute a single dime.

Is this all a publicity stunt to make him look good? Maybe. I don't care. I care that he is making a difference; that he is telling kids to not follow in his footsteps; that at least some of his money is going to right his wrongs.

If we don't like the sentence he was given, maybe it is time to work at changing the laws for animal cruelty, to make the penalties nearly as high as we do for harmed humans.

I for one am glad you stepped in. That was a wonderful addition to this thread! :clap2:

Disappointing news for the person who started this thread. Vick's hand was not broken, just a bad bruise.

No doubt this casts a pall on this haters day. So be it.

Just curious, why do some people feel compelled to crucify Vick weekly in this forum like they are so righteous.

It's media driven. . . why is Casey Anthony the most hated women in the world but Amanda Knox is being persecuted by Italian Justice.

Given the FACTS that WE KNOW I see little difference.

Thanks for the great post Red - I think it was Russ who mentioned the cultural ties but you managed to say it so much more effectively.

They probably do it to get your 2 cents worth.

Thank-you. You are so nice. :ohdear:

yes, just as nice as you.:ohdear:

:popcorn:

Bill :)

Gee, how original. I don't know why I bother saying this, but my last two dogs have been rescue dogs and I know the patience and understanding that these poor creatures need. I have never said it publicly about this because I do it for them and myself and I don't need any self congratulation BS. Get a life and leave Vick alone. I have never in my life seen so many self-rightious people who just love to condemn someone. He paid his dues.

I am not addressing anybody particular, but how many threads does this make? I know how explosive this subject can be to animal lovers, as I am one too. But rehashing it over and over again?

Bill, share the popcorn.

Amazing
 

It is amazing how some feel the need to defend this guy. Regarding growing up in that kind of culture. It is similar to defending the killers who were
raised by a family of criminals and it is societies fault.
It would be well to read some books like "The Sociopath Next Door", or
"Definition of Borderline Personalities" and many so on.
After reading the nature of mental illness that is out there I honestly
believe some will change their minds. I don't believe these are innocent
behavior problems but rather more deep seeded disorders. :undecided:

Where have you read that someone on this thread defended him. To defend him you would have to say that it is normal to abuse animals. Nobody here said it was normal or OK to abuse animals. What people here are saying : at what point does the condemnation stop and the healing start?

Society's fault that someone becomes a murderer? No. Possibly the fault of the family that raised that person, yes.

Vicks did something heinously wrong. He is the first to admit it today. According to the culture that raised him, his actions were acceptable. According to the majority of American society, his actions were abhorrent. I don't see Vicks as a sociopath or even a borderline personality, any more than I do a picador when he thrusts the lance into the bull's shoulders at a bull fight. To me, the picador's actions are torturing a bull for no reason other than to weaken it so another man can kill it. Sociopathic behavior? Technically, it could certainly be classified as such. However, it is, in reality, part of culture that I personally find obscene but is a sport loved by many.

I do see Vicks as having an extraordinary sense of entitlement -- many celebrities do. They really think they are above the law and the moral rules of our society. This was true in the 20s. This is true today. The sad thing is that they aren't entirely wrong. They do many things that we would condemn our neighbors for if our neighbors were to do the same things. The Simpsons and Vicks of this world have to cross many lines before they are vilified. Simpson is now in prison for a crime that would have normally been plead down to maybe a year or two in prison rather than a minimum of nine years and probably a life sentence of OJ. Vicks paid for his crime with a longer prison sentence than an ordinary citizen would have received for the same actions. Isn't it time to move on?

I'm not defending Vicks. I think what he did is obscene and there's no excuse for killing an innocent animal and I loathe dog fighting and those who participate in it. However, I do believe that everyone deserves a second chance if they've shown they've earned that chance. I do believe Vicks has done that.

As I said, if you don't like the laws or the way our justice system handles animal cruelty charges, then do something about it -- write your congressman, work with the SPCA and other organizations to force stiffer penalties, find out when a dog fight is going to occur and picket it.

(And please let me keep my fingers to myself the next time there's a Vicks thread.)

:popcorn::popcorn:

Let this thread be dead.............R.I.P.

Animals do have a voice. If you ignore their suffering, I will remind you of it. If you don't understand them, I will translate. If you don't hear them, I will be their voice. You may silence them but you cannot silence me as long as I live.” ~ Anita Mahdessian

:agree:

Sorry
 

I didn't realize you and George ran the forum.

That's understandable since this is only your second post and since I'm a forgiving person I'll forgive you too!:pray:

Knowledge
 

A number of responses indicate that his 1 1/2 years in jail were sufficient to
pay society back. What is not considered is the underlying mental problem which may exist. Thus to truly understand this kind of anti
social behavior it is importand to educate ones self on the problems associaited with being a sociopath or/and borderline personality and the
prognosis for being a continuing good member of society. It is interesting that his profession remains in a violent world. This does not mean all foortball players, etc are sociopaths or borderline but if you have a history of cruelity then it may worth some thought. Let me add that I am not saying he is either a sociopath or borderline just that when you kill and tourture defenseless animals it is not a "normal" activity to the average person.
As I recall this is a behavior that is a serious concern if demonstrated by
children? :shrug:

"Only your second post".......What does THAT have to do with being "eligible" to post an opinion here???

Michael Vick has a mental problem. Now everyone understands, lets feel a little sorry and move on.Who cares,lets say goodbye to this.

Welcome to the forum. The moderators run the forum, but I suspect you knew that.

It's interesting to see that the two people calling for this thread to end are the same two who have kept the thread moving along by posting messages over a dozen times each. The only joy I've experienced in the Vick saga is seeing the good people who rescued and administered to the brutalized dogs. I also admire the prosecutors.:popcorn:

...duplicate

Well, at least I only do one copy of my posts:ohdear: The man paid his dues, why do these threads keep popping up?

The big three are bed wetting, torturing or killing animals and fascination with fire; that is a very bad combination.