[justjim]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Mother lets son drive golf cart at resort, gets jailed for child abuse | The Charlotte Observer

What do you think of this? I know people's life experiences will color how you see these events.

IMHO there has been too much over aggressiveness by police and with camera and video everywhere it begins to show police that don't use common sense when dealing with people. The force used does not equal the "crime" here. More training is needed in how to respect people when making a "stop".

This started badly by the police accusing people being drunk and not even having the means to prove it. Enough said.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

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Ahhhh I have explained this to my children. I know this speech by heart. They are the ones in authority, you do what they say if you are ever stopped. And do it immediately. They are in command in this situation and they are stopping you or asking you questions because they represent the law. Don't ever argue with them, or run from them or God Forbid mouth off to them. Or you could be dead or in a jail cell. Right or wrong, in this situation, they are in charge.

Tal, it takes a strong person with a great deal of common sense to raise children. You want to protect them in every way and keep all bad things from happening. You have to accept that sometimes they will lie to you, to escape the heat you will give them. You have to raise them to act in a way that other people will find them to be pleasant to be around and other people will hire them someday and other people will marry them and enjoy their lives with them. It is a hard job being a parent, one that people now hand over to people they would not allow to drive their car.

Actually, I do not think you should do anything they say especially if it seems wrong according to your ethical codes. I usually do anything a law enforcement officer asks me to do but if they take the law into their own hands that would be another story.

Case in point. I remember that a casino security officer was telling me that he would plant evidence on people if they really pushed his buttons. He might have been joking; but he may not have. He did have a badge and a gun and he was in charge of security.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Actually, I do not think you should do anything they say especially if it seems wrong according to your ethical codes. I usually do anything a law enforcement officer asks me to do but if they take the law into their own hands that would be another story.

Case in point. I remember that a casino security officer was telling me that he would plant evidence on people if they really pushed his buttons. He might have been joking; but he may not have. He did have a badge and a gun and he was in charge of security.

I think THAT goes without saying that a person would not let a law enforcement sexually abuse them or direct them to do what is illegal. AND....I don't think of a casino security officer as law enforcement. I try to obey the rules and laws of the place I am in, be it school, work, driving, etc. etc. I am not saying I have never broken the rules, we all have, but in the last year we have seen young people shot to death when they would have been alive if they had followed directions by law enforcement.

[graciegirl]

Actually I just watched the first video and the report written under it.

I think the part that bears more investigation is that she had sent her husband back to the condo for mosquito repellent. I am of the opinion that if she had said, "you are right and I am sorry," instead of what she likely said and did, it would not have gotten out of hand. He arrived to see her on the ground in say ...five minutes? Sounds an awful lot like someone with a snootful. But heck, I could be wrong. I know that my grandmother always reminded us;. "A meek answer turneth away all wrath".

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think THAT goes without saying that a person would not let a law enforcement sexually abuse them or direct them to do what is illegal. AND....I don't think of a casino security officer as law enforcement. I try to obey the rules and laws of the place I am in, be it school, work, driving, etc. etc. I am not saying I have never broken the rules, we all have, but in the last year we have seen young people shot to death when they would have been alive if they had followed directions by law enforcement.

A lot of those cases involve community's which have deeply ingrained distrust of the police as when you have a very lucrative drug trade corruption often is there as well. No checks-and-balances really in other words.

These problems vary community-to-community and there does not seem to be an easy answer.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

A lot of those cases involve community's which have deeply ingrained distrust of the police as when you have a very lucrative drug trade corruption often is there as well. No checks-and-balances really in other words.

These problems vary community-to-community and there does not seem to be an easy answer.

You are probably right. No one in my family has had any run in's with the law, so I am not an expert.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

She does not seem to be the type of attention craving person that would imply from what she said in the article.

Tal, with all due respect, I think the opposite. The woman knew her husband was taping the incident, and acted accordingly.
To me, it seems that she craves attention. She could have sanely cooperated with Police, and avoided confrontation.
Instead she chose to shriek and flail around. IMHO, theatrical, overdone and excessive.

Originally Posted by outlaw

Maybe you should pay attention to the context. The parents were breaking the law. The woman acted like a complete @zz, and if you watch the video, you can see the three cops were minimally restraining her during her tantrum. I hope she was also charged with resisting arrest. You are monday morning quarterbacking, trying to blame the cops for this woman's belligerent behavior. As much as you want to make this a Rodney King moment, it just isn't. Based on only the video, these cops acted very professionally. I never saw anything close to abuse or excessive force.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Tal, with all due respect, I think the opposite. The woman knew her husband was taping the incident, and acted accordingly.
To me, it seems that she craves attention. She could have sanely cooperated with Police, and avoided confrontation.
Instead she chose to shriek and flail around. IMHO, theatrical, overdone and excessive.

Woman Who Was Arrested for Letting 11-Year-Old Son Drive Golf Cart Speaks Out - ABC News

Look at the article and the outcome of the legal actions. It kind of suggests that the woman and not the cops were in the right.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by redwitch

The whole thing sounds strange. No question the parents showed poor judgment in allowing the son to drive the cart but a citation should have been sufficient. What police officer doesn't have his ticket book with him? Seems like they held the woman there an awfully long time if you consider that the niece left with the kids and the husband left to get bug repellant and returned. And why was just the mother charged? The father was also in the cart sitting next to the boy. My gut feeling is that the true story is somewhere between the two versions given. Regardless, the charges didn't fit the crime. Child endangerment, okay, but not child abuse.

Nailed it!

[Barefoot]

In each story, the Media seems to mention the fact that the parents were paying $1,000 per night for their cottage rental.
I wonder why that is relevant.

[redwitch]

Was she wrong? You betchya. Her son should not have been driving the cart. She should never gave poked her finger at the officer. However, the officer was just as wrong. To me, not having his citation book on him and demanding that she stick around until someone brings it to him is ridiculous. At that point, he needed to let her go with a warning. Don't know about you, but I'd be livid if I had to wait around after being threatened with having my children taken from me and being chewed on by mosquitoes due to the incompetence of another individual.

As to the flailing around and shrieking, I'm not sure I'd react much differently once I figured out this officer was actually arresting me. I do wonder what went on before her husband showed up. My gut says she did a lot of screaming, ranting and raving. I'm also willing to bet that the officer did nothing to de-escalate the situation. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually exacerbated the incident.

I sincerely doubt there is an innocent party in this. At least the woman had the grace to admit that she was wrong in allowing her son to drive the golf cart and poking her finger at the officer. Hopefully, this incident is now over and maybe everyone can learn the potential consequences of allowing a minor to drive a car or cart.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I sincerely doubt there is an innocent party in this. At least the woman had the grace to admit that she was wrong in allowing her son to drive the golf cart and poking her finger at the officer. Hopefully, this incident is now over and maybe everyone can learn the potential consequences of allowing a minor to drive a car or cart.

Wisely said.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

You are probably right. No one in my family has had any run in's with the law, so I am not an expert.

I am not an expert either but had friends in Reno, Nevada like Tom Snow that sometimes pushed the limits a bit. I would usually tell him I planned on going to law school at some point so I had to pass on his various shenanigans.

My old boss from Farwell and Mikkelson where I worked as an Assistant Manager and other titles (1977-1983 or thereabouts) due to my dropping out of BYU Law School-- someone else got my Title because of that after I came back on board-- became a Nevada Prison Warden. He did enjoy talks on Crime and Punishment though. I do look at the cases various prisoners have against him as the Warden once in a while online.

I looked at 40 cases of various prisoners at Minnesota Correctional Facility- Stillwater when I was a Student and Student Director at Legal Assistance to Minnesota Prisoners (L.A.M.P.) and some of these involved the drug trade others just variations of the Seven Deadly Sins. Seven Deadly Sins

I have corresponded with many victims/survivors during various phases of my 224 613 Project -- Google Taltarzac725-- but most of these conversations are private in nature so I should not go into them.

There are very few black and white situations in law I have found. Just a lot of grays.

This golf cart driving case Redwitch seems to be right that there are not any innocent parties here. And I do hope that my bringing this up on Talk of the Villages might stop some visiting kids bringing their grandkids to the Villages and having them drive golf carts when they are underage.

[graciegirl]

If you step back three paces, make it seven and look at the crux of the matter, then she should not have allowed the kid to drive. If he had fallen off the path, hurt himself, hurt someone else, then the parents could be in legal trouble or terribly heartbroken. It looked to me like she was causing trouble and resisting arrest.

I doubt that RedWitch would have thrown such a hissy fit. Never saw her get wound up in nine years I've known her. She would have stood there and waited and smoked a cigarette.

Police are wrong sometimes, and these guys certainly weren't up to the standards most of us would expect...but if they hadn't stopped the kid and told the mom he wasn't allowed to drive, can you imagine the trouble if something went terribly wrong? They as a bunch seem to be damned if they don't and damned if they do.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

If you step back three paces, make it seven and look at the crux of the matter, then she should not have allowed the kid to drive. If he had fallen off the path, hurt himself, hurt someone else, then the parents could be in legal trouble or terribly heartbroken. It looked to me like she was causing trouble and resisting arrest.

I doubt that RedWitch would have thrown such a hissy fit. Never saw her get wound up in nine years I've known her. She would have stood there and waited and smoked a cigarette.

Police are wrong sometimes, and these guys certainly weren't up to the standards most of us would expect...but if they hadn't stopped the kid and told the mom he wasn't allowed to drive, can you imagine the trouble if something went terribly wrong? They as a bunch seem to be damned if they don't and damned if they do.

I would have to look at the actual distances involved and the like in this case. It sounds like they let the 11 year old drive the golf cart a very short distance on a golf cart path where there are only golf carts and probably very little traffic at that time.

I am just very context oriented when it comes to legal cases. Wisdom seems to be in the details of these cases and not in very broad sweeping generalizations.

Redwitch would be very calm you are right. I hope I would be too in such a situation. I am usually very respectful to anyone carrying a gun.