[PennBF]

I have a sister who when called to Jury Duty would tell the Judge that she is willing to serve BUT it is her belief that if someone gets as far as a criminal charge and court then they must be guilty of something and she would vote that way. I kind of feel this way with the current uproar about the Police protecting themselves. If someone gets as far that a policeman must pull his weapon then the person must be guilty of something and therefore the cop is right. Cops do not go out of the Station House and are planning to shoot someone. If someone gets in the position the cop must shoot then they must have done something that put themselves in the position of being shot. Honest citizens, regardless of race, etc. do not put themselves in the position to be shot.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Unfortunately, two black males decided to shoplift the convenience store where the incident happened that night. Unfortunately, a white Police Officer responded to the call and not a black P/O, of which Berkeley, MO has a number of. Unfortunately, the white Officer had just been issued a body cam, but not had been trained in the use of it yet, so it wasn't activated. Unfortunately, the dash cam wasn't activated because the light bar wasn't activated. Unfortunately, the black male pulled a weapon on the white officer. Fortunately, the black male was too slow to pull the trigger, failed to pull the trigger, couldn't get the safety off, thought the officer would back down or pull out his pepper spray or pull his taser, as the black males mother thought should have happened. Fortunately, the white Officer, in that split second the black male pulled his weapon and pointed it at the white Officer, was able to recognize the black males weapon, draw his own weapon (no safety as Glocks have no safety), fire at the black male 3 times, fatally striking him once, and save his own life.

What did the black male do wrong? It's not rocket science to figure this out. What did the white officer do wrong? ABSOLUTELY, NOTHING.

Now, with all the facts as they are, why did the gathering of blacks, after this incident, decide to go across the street to another convenience store and start smashing windows at it? BECAUSE OF THE CULTURE OF VIOLENCE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT.

I really wonder if all this violence would have happened if Brown, Garner and Martin had been killed by black police officers? Probably not.

[pivo]

What saved the officer from being shot was he stumbled backwards and fell to the ground and then fired, I think the tug's aim was not sure because of the officer stunbling backward to the ground, the officer was very lucky.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by pivo

What saved the officer from being shot was he stumbled backwards and fell to the ground and then fired, I think the tug's aim was not sure because of the officer stunbling backward to the ground, the officer was very lucky.

Whatever happened, we have one lucky Officer and one unlucky dumbs**t.

[jblum315]

Most likely the dumb ***t had never fired that gun before and was unfamiliar with it, just as the police officer was unfamiliar with his new camera, but knew how to use his gun. Not so much luck as inexperience and lack of training.

[graciegirl]

Apparently the Attorney Generals directions are in place. The media has not mentioned the race of people involved in serious issues when people have been killed or badly injured or shot at in the last couple of weeks.

. Perhaps law enforcement are getting more detail when they are looking for someone but no descriptors using race have been used lately on our local television stations.

[Jimturner]

Tough call when weighing public safty and freedom of speech. I would vote for protecting the public.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Jimturner

Tough call when weighing public safty and freedom of speech. I would vote for protecting the public.

I agree.

Last night I saw just the end of a show on ABC with Steve Harvey who is apparently running some kind of camps for disadvantaged youth without fathers. It sounded like such a GOOD thing to do. Did anyone else see all of it and care to comment?

[blueash]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I have a sister who when called to Jury Duty would tell the Judge that she is willing to serve BUT it is her belief that if someone gets as far as a criminal charge and court then they must be guilty of something and she would vote that way. I kind of feel this way with the current uproar about the Police protecting themselves. If someone gets as far that a policeman must pull his weapon then the person must be guilty of something and therefore the cop is right. Cops do not go out of the Station House and are planning to shoot someone. If someone gets in the position the cop must shoot then they must have done something that put themselves in the position of being shot. Honest citizens, regardless of race, etc. do not put themselves in the position to be shot.

Really? I hope I never get you or your sister on a jury. Do you not understand the concept of the presumption of innocence? It is fundamental to our nation, our Constitution, and to most religions if not all of them.

"A 61-year-old man was shot to death by police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug raid on the wrong house.

Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door. "

Or if that's not bad enough

"Sleeping 7-year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home

"They blew my granddaughter's brains out. They killed her right before my eyes. I watched the light go out of her eyes."

Or John Crawford, what did he do "wrong" other than be black and therefore by definition very scary while carrying a toy in Walmart?

How about Akai Gurley. I bet you've never heard of him either?

"Brooklyn District Attorney Kenneth Thompson said Friday that a grand jury will be impaneled in the case of Akai Gurley, who was fatally shot by a rookie NYPD police officer in a dark public housing stairwell.

Police Commissioner William Bratton called the shooting a tragic accident, with Bratton saying Gurley was "a total innocent."

How about Victor White?
Yvette Smith? She was not only shot by a cop when she was doing what she was told and was unarmed but the police after the event reportedly altered the cops training records to falsify what his training had been.

Or read this eyewitness to a 16 yo being shot 11 times because a cop was primed to see a gun that did not exist. Eyewitness: Police Shot Kimani Gray While The 16-Year-Old Was On The Ground | Village Voice

Was this kid completely compliant? Did he adjust his pants? Did he deserve to die? Is that the kind of policing you want for your grandchildren? Can you even begin for just a moment to understand that a black parent might fear his teen boy doing nothing more than hanging out might be the victim of a police "accident"? Sure you will point out that he is even more likely to be shot by a black gang member. Is that your best argument for excusing excess force by police against too may people of color?

Look, I like cops. One of my best friends is a former NYC cop who is obviously distressed by the murder of those two by a crazy person. But there are bad cops, there are poorly trained cops, and there are cops who when they see a black person especially a younger male, are too prone to use violence first. They are rare but they are there. And sadly when a person tries to point out these cases and that race plays a role and that black and brown people are the victims of that prejudice, some calling it playing the race card whereas I call it acknowledging reality and asking for justice.

[gerryann]

These cases are SO in the minority that I wonder why you feel the need to post them. None of these situations belong in a discussion about police officers defending themselves.
One of your best friends is a NYC officer, but you search out tragic accidents that were made. Send your posts to your NYC officer and ask him HIS opinion on the incidences you post.
You mention the black parent of teens who worry about their teen "just hanging around" and getting shot........tell that parent to monitor their teen and pay attention to where he is "hanging out". And take that knife or gun away from him.....and teach your child respect for police officers, or even fear of the police officer, if that's what it takes.
Your posts are disturbing to say the least.

[Beechie]

[QUOTE=blueash;986039]Really? I hope I never get you or your sister on a jury. Do you not understand the concept of the presumption of innocence? It is fundamental to our nation, our Constitution, and to most religions if not all of them.

Although I agree with your condemnation of blind support for law enforcement, I am not so sure I would want you as a juror if I were a Police Officer. Would you afford the same presumption of innocence? The mainstream media and high ranking members of the Government and others of your ilk were immediate in it's guilty judgement of the police.

I do want to believe in our law enforcement officers but I also want to hear the facts before judgement.

PS I would like to see cameras on all LEO as I believe there should be nothing to hide. Perhaps once that happens we can start to work on why there is a disproportionate amount of black crime and come up with real solutions to real problems.

[Jimturner]

Unless citizens immediately obey police commands you will be inviting chaos.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Beechie

Although I agree with your condemnation of blind support for law enforcement, I am not so sure I would want you as a juror if I were a Police Officer. Would you afford the same presumption of innocence? The mainstream media and high ranking members of the Government and others of your ilk were immediate in it's guilty judgement of the police.

I do want to believe in our law enforcement officers but I also want to hear the facts before judgement.

PS I would like to see cameras on all LEO as I believe there should be nothing to hide. Perhaps once that happens we can start to work on why there is a disproportionate amount of black crime and come up with real solutions to real problems.

I am not sure what my ilk might be. I don't think I could have been any clearer in my endorsement of the presumption of innocence. And my presumption is the same for a cop, a clergyman, a member of a street gang, and anyone else in a courtroom. I am not aware, and maybe I missed it, of any high ranking members of the Government who were immediate in a guilty judgment of the police. I am aware of some who said that there are policing issues and that these need to be fixed. I am aware of several Fox news commentators (?the media you meant?) who criticized the lack of indictment of NYC cops in the death of Garner.

I would agree with this
" law enforcement has an incredibly difficult job; that every man or woman in uniform are putting their lives at risk to protect us; that they have the right to come home, just like we do from our jobs; that there’s real crime out there that they’ve got to tackle day in and day out -- but that they’re only going to be able to do their job effectively if everybody has confidence in the system."

and this from the AG
I know that substantial numbers of people in New York and across the country will be disappointed and frustrated by the outcome of the state grand jury proceeding today. I know many will plan to voice their disappointment publicly through protests. This is the right of all Americans. But as I have said before, throughout our history, the most successful movements have been those that adhered to the principles of nonviolence. I urge all those inclined to demonstrate tonight and in the days ahead to remain peaceful in their demonstrations, and not to engage in activities that deflect our attention from the very serious matters our nation must confront."

Are those the kinds of comments people of my ilk make that you might find offensive?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by blueash

Really? I hope I never get you or your sister on a jury. Do you not understand the concept of the presumption of innocence? It is fundamental to our nation, our Constitution, and to most religions if not all of them.

"A 61-year-old man was shot to death by police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug raid on the wrong house.

Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door. "

Or if that's not bad enough

"Sleeping 7-year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home

"They blew my granddaughter's brains out. They killed her right before my eyes. I watched the light go out of her eyes."

Or John Crawford, what did he do "wrong" other than be black and therefore by definition very scary while carrying a toy in Walmart?

How about Akai Gurley. I bet you've never heard of him either?

"Brooklyn District Attorney Kenneth Thompson said Friday that a grand jury will be impaneled in the case of Akai Gurley, who was fatally shot by a rookie NYPD police officer in a dark public housing stairwell.

Police Commissioner William Bratton called the shooting a tragic accident, with Bratton saying Gurley was "a total innocent."

How about Victor White?
Yvette Smith? She was not only shot by a cop when she was doing what she was told and was unarmed but the police after the event reportedly altered the cops training records to falsify what his training had been.

Or read this eyewitness to a 16 yo being shot 11 times because a cop was primed to see a gun that did not exist. Eyewitness: Police Shot Kimani Gray While The 16-Year-Old Was On The Ground | Village Voice

Was this kid completely compliant? Did he adjust his pants? Did he deserve to die? Is that the kind of policing you want for your grandchildren? Can you even begin for just a moment to understand that a black parent might fear his teen boy doing nothing more than hanging out might be the victim of a police "accident"? Sure you will point out that he is even more likely to be shot by a black gang member. Is that your best argument for excusing excess force by police against too may people of color?

Look, I like cops. One of my best friends is a former NYC cop who is obviously distressed by the murder of those two by a crazy person. But there are bad cops, there are poorly trained cops, and there are cops who when they see a black person especially a younger male, are too prone to use violence first. They are rare but they are there. And sadly when a person tries to point out these cases and that race plays a role and that black and brown people are the victims of that prejudice, some calling it playing the race card whereas I call it acknowledging reality and asking for justice.

Yes there are bad cops, but not as many bad cops by percentage than horrible law breakers of the group we cannot speak of. If I had to wish that one group would become stronger, it would be the police officers. It is sad when innocent people are killed, but the kind of emphasis you give these scenarios make it appear that you really don't like law enforcement and really are pulling for the folks who get arrested way too frequently because they are doing bad things. I like people for what they do, not the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. There is a HUGE issue with young men in poor areas who do not have a father's influence or an example of a family wage earner turning toward drugs, their use and entering into the business of dealing drugs.

THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE...certainly greater than police officers killing people which does happen and certainly is horrible but it is not the focus of law enforcement nor is it the mindset of the majority of law enforcement.

The media is barking up the wrong tree and the opportunity for the president to make a huge difference to these young people is rapidly slipping away. In this area, I am SO disappointed. Someone needed to holler at them like a dad would.

[Jimturner]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Yes there are bad cops, but not as many bad cops by percentage than horrible law breakers of the group we cannot speak of. If I had to wish that one group would become stronger, it would be the police officers. It is sad when innocent people are killed, but the kind of emphasis you give these scenarios make it appear that you really don't like law enforcement and really are pulling for the folks who get arrested way too frequently because they are doing bad things. I like people for what they do, not the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. There is a HUGE issue with young men in poor areas who do not have a father's influence or an example of a family wage earner turning toward drugs, their use and entering into the business of dealing drugs.

THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE...certainly greater than police officers killing people which does happen and certainly is horrible but it is not the focus of law enforcement nor is it the mindset of the majority of law enforcement.

The media is barking up the wrong tree and the opportunity for the president to make a huge difference to these young people is rapidly slipping away. In this area, I am SO disappointed. Someone needed to holler at them like a dad would.

What I wanted from the Pres was: Get off the streets, leave this investigation to us, but what I heard was that he understood the anger. He may as well had issued an order to take the streets away from the order of law.