[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by PugMom

yeah, but the tolls are very low in cost compared to some areas. i think the most i paid for a fl toll since i've been here was $1.50. just some weeks ago, i had to pay $22 just to cross a bridge in jersey, $18 for a bridge in nyc.

I paid $16.00 to use the GWB or Lincoln Tunnel at least five times a week. Crazy.
What is $22.00?

[tvbound]

Our infrastructure has to be paid somehow, but I've never thought the gas tax was the proper or fair way to do it. It seems to me that especially with so many EV's/hybrids these days, a method that more closely reflects the damage done to our roads/bridges needs to be found. One way I've heard proposed that makes sense to me, is to develop a formula that takes the GVWR (the maximum loaded weight of your vehicle/trailer) and the miles driven each year - to determine the tax paid. Some may say that it's not fair, because vehicles aren't always loaded to the max, but I would point out that the biggest trucks that operate fully loaded (and that do the most damage) are currently paying the same as an empty truck, when the tax is simply based on fuel purchased. And yes, it can become complicated in determining what an OTR truck can actually pull, but maybe a function of horsepower could also be included in the formula?

[Bay Kid]

Tax, Tax, Tax, then TAX some more.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Tax, Tax, Tax, then TAX some more.

As much as I and others do not like to pay taxes, where does the money come from to maintain, fix and build roads and bridges?

Continued rise of electric hybird and high MPG vehicles is going to create shortages in money for roads. Politicians need to be working NOW on finding a fair way to provide revenue for the work needed, keeping in mind that under the current taxation method(.35 per gallon) the tax revenue will go down.

Currenlty if a person drives a high mileage vehicle they are probably paying a lot less in taxes than the past if they drove a low mileage vehicle. In the 90's had a Cadillac which got 8 mpg. Some of the best MPG cars got 20 mpg(had a VW bug and it got 20 mpg with no frills) Now have full size Acura and it gets 25 mpg. Overall now I pay less in road taxes for the same miles driven. It is even more pronounced in TV as most of us do not work and spend a lot of time driving golf carts.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by tvbound

Our infrastructure has to be paid somehow, but I've never thought the gas tax was the proper or fair way to do it. It seems to me that especially with so many EV's/hybrids these days, a method that more closely reflects the damage done to our roads/bridges needs to be found. One way I've heard proposed that makes sense to me, is to develop a formula that takes the GVWR (the maximum loaded weight of your vehicle/trailer) and the miles driven each year - to determine the tax paid. Some may say that it's not fair, because vehicles aren't always loaded to the max, but I would point out that the biggest trucks that operate fully loaded (and that do the most damage) are currently paying the same as an empty truck, when the tax is simply based on fuel purchased. And yes, it can become complicated in determining what an OTR truck can actually pull, but maybe a function of horsepower could also be included in the formula?

And the commercial vehicles will pass the tax to the consumer through increased costs to the shipper.

[spd2918]

Make the tax a one time $7,500 fee so the taxpayers can recoup their loss.

[biker1]

Approximately 19 states already charge an annual EV tax to compensate for the fact that EVs don't provide revenue for roads via gasoline tax. Florida doesn't currently charge this tax but I suspect at some point in the future it will. So, how much should it be? As a ball park estimate, let's assume you drive the average (not Village's average) of 12,000 miles per year and get 30 miles per gallon. The Florida gas tax (there is a state and federal component) is 59.5 cents per gallon. That works out to about $240 per year.

Originally Posted by kkingston57

As much as I and others do not like to pay taxes, where does the money come from to maintain, fix and build roads and bridges?

Continued rise of electric hybird and high MPG vehicles is going to create shortages in money for roads. Politicians need to be working NOW on finding a fair way to provide revenue for the work needed, keeping in mind that under the current taxation method(.35 per gallon) the tax revenue will go down.

Currenlty if a person drives a high mileage vehicle they are probably paying a lot less in taxes than the past if they drove a low mileage vehicle. In the 90's had a Cadillac which got 8 mpg. Some of the best MPG cars got 20 mpg(had a VW bug and it got 20 mpg with no frills) Now have full size Acura and it gets 25 mpg. Overall now I pay less in road taxes for the same miles driven. It is even more pronounced in TV as most of us do not work and spend a lot of time driving golf carts.

[John-US]

ICE vehicles should be taxed more for the pollution. In fact other countries it costs MORE to register an older vehicle than newer to get folks to turn off the older vehicles with dated pollution.

As jay leno would say electric vehicles are great for commuting etc. like older vehicles and horses they should be used as a hobby.

Nobody is commuting to work on a horse.

*the yesteryear golf cars are not only period correct in style , also in pollution. (not a good smell) hey if you loved yesterday why are you in the present? - yes that's harsh.

Relax guys it's a forum.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by John-US

ICE vehicles should be taxed more for the pollution. In fact other countries it costs MORE to register an older vehicle than newer to get folks to turn off the older vehicles with dated pollution.

As jay leno would say electric vehicles are great for commuting etc. like older vehicles and horses they should be used as a hobby.

Nobody is commuting to work on a horse.

*the yesteryear golf cars are not only period correct in style , also in pollution. (not a good smell) hey if you loved yesterday why are you in the present? - yes that's harsh.

Relax guys it's a forum.

ICE vehicles already are taxed more via the gas tax. Also, the lower MPH vehicles are taxed more since they burn more gas/diesel. What I am afraid of is that they will start taxing all vehicles based on miles driven and keep the current gas tax, effectively double taxing ICE vehicles.

[biker1]

That could possibly happen. Never forget that the Government often uses money as an incentive, in this case to motivate you to buy an electric car.

Originally Posted by tophcfa

ICE vehicles already are taxed more via the gas tax. Also, the lower MPH vehicles are taxed more since they burn more gas/diesel. What I am afraid of is that they will start taxing all vehicles based on miles driven and keep the current gas tax, effectively double taxing ICE vehicles.

[blueash]

It is interesting to me that almost everyone has agreed that the present method of financing road infrastructure which mostly depends on the gasoline use tax needs to be fixed; and, this problem will only worsen as more electric vehicles and more fuel efficient cars come onto the roads. Keep in mind that as states move to tax EVs that does nothing to replenish the federal highway fund that receives 18 cents a gallon.

Unlike the states which raise their gas tax often, the federal tax has been the same since 1993. The Highway Trust Fund is billions in the red and worsening every year. Most of the money in the fund is returned to the states for projects.

Many states use their own gas tax collected for costs that are not transportation related including police costs, education, and administration

So why is this proposed legislation going nowhere in Florida? The powerful oil industry is pushing it, to reduce the attractiveness of buying an EV. Is it just the "all taxes are evil" people? Or politicians so afraid that a future opponent will run an ad against them for imposing a tax.. I can't figure it out.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by JoMar

And the commercial vehicles will pass the tax to the consumer through increased costs to the shipper.

Which has been the same cry to avoid taxing those who can afford it the most, since like forever. We became the greatest nation on earth, with a top marginal tax rate more than double what it is now. Given that there is still competition, we'll see how much the entirety of any tax is simply a pass-through, versus a company/entity deciding to absorb some of it themselves. Welcome to capitalism.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by tvbound

Our infrastructure has to be paid somehow, but I've never thought the gas tax was the proper or fair way to do it. It seems to me that especially with so many EV's/hybrids these days, a method that more closely reflects the damage done to our roads/bridges needs to be found. One way I've heard proposed that makes sense to me, is to develop a formula that takes the GVWR (the maximum loaded weight of your vehicle/trailer) and the miles driven each year - to determine the tax paid. Some may say that it's not fair, because vehicles aren't always loaded to the max, but I would point out that the biggest trucks that operate fully loaded (and that do the most damage) are currently paying the same as an empty truck, when the tax is simply based on fuel purchased. And yes, it can become complicated in determining what an OTR truck can actually pull, but maybe a function of horsepower could also be included in the formula?

According to this article a large truck pays a bit over $13,000 a year in road tax. A typical passenger vehicle pays a bit less than $400 a year.

Truck Taxes and Revenue – Road Funding: Time for a Change – Mackinac Center

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

According to this article a large truck pays a bit over $13,000 a year in road tax. A typical passenger vehicle pays a bit less than $400 a year.

Truck Taxes and Revenue – Road Funding: Time for a Change – Mackinac Center

As Paul Harvey would now pause and say.. the rest of the story. You cannot equate miles driven by a large truck with that by a passenger car. Our roads are nearly immune to wear from cars. Almost all the damage is done by heavy vehicles. A single 5 axle truck equals the wear and tear of 1500 cars. See table 2 page 9

A truck axle carrying 18000 pounds equals that of 5000 cars

The trucking industry disputes these numbers saying that
When a highway is properly designed…it will not be damaged by the traffic it is designed to support

Of course not all road tax is repaving cost. Part is the cost of building the original road bed or bridge to handle the weight of trucks. If the numbers above for gas tax paid by trucks only reflects miles driven it woefully under collects for the harm to infrastructure of those trucks.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

According to this article a large truck pays a bit over $13,000 a year in road tax. A typical passenger vehicle pays a bit less than $400 a year.

Truck Taxes and Revenue – Road Funding: Time for a Change – Mackinac Center

That highly biased site, conveniently omits the amount of miles driven by those large trucks - that do most of the damage.

While a long read (but some eye-opening graphs), here is a much more in-depth and balanced look at our current issues.

Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) Tax | Highway Funding | Tax Foundation