[graciegirl]

I watched the POTUS speech last night in response to the campus shooting in Oregon.


He thinks that changing laws would lesson or stop this kind of awful event.


I don't.


I think only good people would comply. There are enough guns in circulation that bad people would get them and use them for their nefarious causes. AND that people who need to protect themselves could not protect themselves. If I were the person who had to carry cash to the bank for a business, I would want to have a gun. If I lived in a high crime area, I would want to have a gun.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I watched the POTUS speech last night in response to the campus shooting in Oregon.


He thinks that changing laws would lesson or stop this kind of awful event.


I don't.


I think only good people would comply. There are enough guns in circulation that bad people would get them and use them for their nefarious causes. AND that people who need to protect themselves could not protect themselves. If I were the person who had to carry cash to the bank for a business, I would want to have a gun. If I lived in a high crime area, I would want to have a gun.

Depends on how you approach it. This looks like a very long term problem which can only be solved through long term strategies. CBS News on 10/01/2015 had a discussion on prevention through pediatricians in various programs who catch troubled teens in their development of these kind of sociopathic actions. Public health policies seem to be the answers.

It seems like what is needed here are more people involved with looking out for one another rather than technological changes like blocks on rifle chamber clips, etc.

This also applies to the Villages IMHO. Road rage and the like can be curbed by using the same kind of community development educational programs here in the Villages as well. Staying Safe Around Aggressive Driving - Driver Safety - AARP

We need more doctors and health professionals involved in addressing these kind of problems rather than lawyers and politicians IMHO. And more local based approaches rather than those coming from DC.

[Jimturner]

I am a gun owner and can't imagine not having them. But not making the ownership more controlled is irresponsible.
The good guy bad guy or the silly guns don't kill people argument is worthless.
People with mental problems buy weapons and make long term plans to carry out their craziness. Background checks would help. I would propose to own a gun, you would be required to meet or exceed the requirements for concealed carry. If you can't qualify for concealed carry you should not own one.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Jimturner

I am a gun owner and can't imagine not having them. But not making the ownership more controlled is irresponsible.
The good guy bad guy or the silly guns don't kill people argument is worthless.
People with mental problems buy weapons and make long term plans to carry out their craziness. Background checks would help. I would propose to own a gun, you would be required to meet or exceed the requirements for concealed carry. If you can't qualify for concealed carry you should not own one.

We already have background checks. I still don't like the idea of having to be in a government database, fingerprints on file, just to achieve my 2nd amendment right. I have a CWP and I resent the government "allowing" me my right to self protection. That is a basic human right in my opinion. Requiring background checks, finger printing, license and license fee are "infringing" on my 2nd A right.

[Jimturner]

Originally Posted by outlaw

We already have background checks. I still don't like the idea of having to be in a government database, fingerprints on file, just to achieve my 2nd amendment right. I have a CWP and I resent the government "allowing" me my right to self protection. That is a basic human right in my opinion. Requiring background checks, finger printing, license and license fee are "infringing" on my 2nd A right.

I understand, but for your inconvenience of qualifying for concealed carry gives more in a way of protecting me from you. Again, if you failed to qualify to carry, l don't want you to own a gun. I want more qualified men and women to carry, but less that do not qualify.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Road rage and the like can be curbed by using the same kind of community development educational programs here in the Villages as well. Staying Safe Around Aggressive Driving - Driver Safety - AARP

Staying Safe is a lesson in street smarts. It doesn't change the behavior of an aggressive driver unless I missed something. Some see street smarts as cowardice. That's the rub.

[Taltarzac725]

The gun show loopholes might help.

My brother-in-law Jim was a paranoid schizophrenic but a clever one never saying or doing anything overt that would have allowed my older brother and sister-in-law to put him into treatment in Virginia. Instead, he purchased several Glock type weapons and started hanging out in gun ranges while also thinking that his sister had been taken over by aliens. My brother threw him out of the house a few years ago. He disappeared for a while but they ran into him walking around Burke Lake and he did not even acknowledge them. A few months later he shot himself with one of the guns he had bought at a VA gun show around November 2014. He left his car with many of his belongings in a field with his dead body as he thought he "journey" would continue according to writings found in his apartment by the police.

Jim had spent most of his life in India as a transcendental meditation teacher. His mentor died and he came back to the States. He immersed himself in Death Wish and other very violent movies. There are a lot of red flags here but my older brother and sister-in-law could not get the VA mental health laws to work for them.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Staying Safe is a lesson in street smarts. It doesn't change the behavior of an aggressive driver unless I missed something. Some see street smarts as cowardice. That's the rub.

I am talking about more community education to prepare family members and others and how to deal with the development of aggression. Lawyers and politicians in my experience usually cause more of this than lessen it. There are exceptions.

Case from my own experiences fighting for practical information for survivors/victims of crimes accessible in libraries. I was attempting to get links to the Florida Victim Services Directory in libraries across FL from 2000 through 2007 or so and beyond.

Instead of meeting my rather gentle suggestions about getting this link and keeping it the Palm Harbor Library Director Gene Coppola had the Palm Harbor Library General Counsel send me a 3-02-2004 Cease and Desist Letter about e-mailing people at the two Palm Harbor Libraries that there no longer was an active link to the Florida Victim Services Directory. Instead, there was on to the Lemon Laws. Coppola was acting more like some politician protecting his territory than an educator and person who is concerned about access to practical information in the community. This kind of politics made us want to get out of Palm Harbor, FL as soon as possible. We moved to the Villages about 16 months after this. I was certainly quite angry about the whole mess.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The gun show loopholes might help.

My brother-in-law Jim was a paranoid schizophrenic but a clever one never saying or doing anything overt that would have allowed my older brother and sister-in-law to put him into treatment in Virginia. Instead, he purchased several Glock type weapons and started hanging out in gun ranges while also thinking that his sister had been taken over by aliens. My brother threw him out of the house a few years ago. He disappeared for a while but they ran into him walking around Burke Lake and he did not even acknowledge them. A few months later he shot himself with one of the guns he had bought at a VA gun show. He left his car with many of his belongings in a field with his dead body as he thought he "journey" would continue according to writings found in his apartment by the police.

Jim had spent most of his life in India as a transcendental meditation teacher. His mentor died and he came back to the States. He immersed himself in Death Wish other very violent movies.

i sent a pm

[Sandtrap328]

Look at the murder rate by handgun in countries where ownership of handguns is prohibited. They are much lower than here in the US.

However, the Supreme Court has reaffirmed that private ownership of handguns is guaranteed by the Constitution, so it is law of the land.

Even we, who do not believe it is right, must respect that right.

Likewise, others who do not believe other Supreme Court decisions, have to respect those decisions also - same sex marriage, ACA, etc.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by tomwed

i sent a pm

Thanks, Jim was my brother-in-law. I did lose my younger brother Chuck to long term alcoholism on December 3, 2014. That's another problem but one that AA does provide some solutions for if the person is willing to take the 12 step program seriously. Chuck never really did always thinking that he could handle it himself.

AA does seem to be a very successful approach to the problem of alcoholism. The lawyers and politicians went balls up with their solutions in the Prohibition movement. Of course, many of the lawyers and politicians involved also got rich finding and taking advantage of loopholes in liquor laws.

[dirtbanker]

Gracie - I don't believe he, or anyone else, will be successful in getting gun laws changed to where citizens could no longer own guns. There are a tremendous amount of lawful gun owners that would revolt to their 2nd amendment rights being taken from them. It is just another waste of television air time, in which the discussion provides the perpetrator with the attention they desired.

I do believe the media and government / local officials have the power to curb some of these acts. It is more desirable to be known as a villain than a coward. These perpetrators that shoot unarmed (defenseless) people, should be portrayed as the coward they are! Take all the guns away, and these cowards would probably drive a vehicle into a crowd of people (possibly those standing in line for the next "new" phone at the Apple store) to get the recognition as a villain, installing fear in others, the attention they so desire.

[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The gun show loopholes might help.

My brother-in-law Jim was a paranoid schizophrenic but a clever one never saying or doing anything overt that would have allowed my older brother and sister-in-law to put him into treatment in Virginia. Instead, he purchased several Glock type weapons and started hanging out in gun ranges while also thinking that his sister had been taken over by aliens. My brother threw him out of the house a few years ago. He disappeared for a while but they ran into him walking around Burke Lake and he did not even acknowledge them. A few months later he shot himself with one of the guns he had bought at a VA gun show around November 2014. He left his car with many of his belongings in a field with his dead body as he thought he "journey" would continue according to writings found in his apartment by the police.

Jim had spent most of his life in India as a transcendental meditation teacher. His mentor died and he came back to the States. He immersed himself in Death Wish and other very violent movies. There are a lot of red flags here but my older brother and sister-in-law could not get the VA mental health laws to work for them.

IMO, had your brother-in-law been committed and treated for his mental illness, he would probably still be alive. A more thorough background check may have prevented him from from acquiring a firearm, but it wouldn't have prevented him from killing himself one way or another. Sorry for your loss.

[redwitch]

I'm with JimT and the POTUS on this one. A better registry is needed. This is not an attempt to deny Second Amendment rights. There are far too many gun deaths here. Better screening might help. Statistics have repeatedly shown that those states and countries with stringent gun laws have far fewer gun deaths than those that don't. Why are people willing to give up their rights for search and seizure and privacy to stop terrorists but scream when it comes to reasonable gun laws?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by AJ32162

IMO, had your brother-in-law been committed and treated for his mental illness, he would probably still be alive. A more thorough background check may have prevented him from from acquiring a firearm, but it wouldn't have prevented him from killing himself one way or another. Sorry for your loss.

Actually, Jim was never treated for mental illness as far as I know. He never presented himself as a danger to himself or others under VA law. He was clever enough to never say something to authorities or others that would have had him needing treatment under the law. His rather nutty writings were not found until after he killed himself and the police were going through his things.

My younger brother Chuck on the other hand must have been in mental health facilities to deal with his alcoholism 15 times or more from 1998 onward. He never had any interest in guns, knives, etc.