[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by My Post

Interesting thread to read. Interesting opinions. Life long Catholic. I'm about done. Someone said to me the other day, why would anyone listen to the words of people alive in the bronze age? They didn't know where the sun "went" at night. They didn't know the land we are on even existed.

Have heard it before of course, but this time it kinda stuck with me. This Pope is a Socialist and Communist at the same time. Not a fan. He wants redistribution of wealth? How about starting with some of that stolen art?
With that said I find going to mass comforting and have met many great Clergy members. Also unfortunately there was a terrible incident in the 80s in my Parish is New Jersey. And in retrospect, we shoulda saw it coming.

I have never been abused in any way and feel terrible for anyone that has been. The nuns are supposed to be "married to God."
I'm sort of embarrassed to say that sounds sort of cultist to me.

I hear you with my heart. Our family sees this latest terrible concealment as the death knoll for the American Catholic Church. I have many beautiful memories of important life moments that will always be with me. I KNOW good men and women who were true to their vows and an inspiration to their flock. The truth is that celibacy isn't normal. I believe that it was expected because of it's sacrifice to God. People need the cherishing love of another human. That doesn't change the way I feel about the Eucharist. I know the pitfalls of all organized religion and I fight to have faith in God. Because no matter how smart you are, how "realistic" you are, there are times that we all fall to our knees. I feel sad for people who have no faith at all.

[My Post]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I hear you with my heart. Our family sees this latest terrible concealment as the death knoll for the American Catholic Church. I have many beautiful memories of important life moments that will always be with me. I KNOW good men and women who were true to their vows and an inspiration to their flock. The truth is that celibacy isn't normal. I believe that it was expected because of it's sacrifice to God. People need the cherishing love of another human. That doesn't change the way I feel about the Eucharist. I know the pitfalls of all organized religion and I fight to have faith in God. Because no matter how smart you are, how "realistic" you are, there are times that we all fall to our knees. I feel sad for people who have no faith at all.

Yes, that is a very good way to put it! Like...can you be a believer and NOT a believer at the same time? Not to get off track, but we know now from Mother Theresa's diaries that she struggled throughout her life with her faith in terms of what she actually thought, and was NOT a believer in many aspects at the time of her death........Yet, she is Mother Theresa.

Also, as you say, there have been times that there was just no where else to turn....so I try not to be a hypocrite and just turn there when someone is sick or whatever.

[retiredguy123]

I understand that "Spotlight" is an excellent movie on this topic (97 percent on Rotten Tomatoes). It's on Netflix, but I'm too cheap to pay for it yet.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

With all due respect, despite your, or any individual's experience, these incidents are far from isolated events. They are widespread and systematic. I am afraid that trying to excuse them as isolated or overblown tends to perpetuate the problem.

I merely was attempting to state that out of the total population of those "involved" those participating in wrong doing do not represent the majority. While not knowing exact numbers one can pretty much expect numbers to statistically follow the pattern of Paredo's Law (the 80-20 rule).

There was no intent or attempt at trying to excuse anything or intimate the subject was overblown.....no oblique or in between the lines messaging.

Our past and experiences guide us all in what we say, think and..... interpret.

[Henryk]

Originally Posted by HandyGrandpap

Having grown up catholic, yes confession every week, in Pittsburgh, in many of the older large churches the nuns also resided in the same generally large rectories as the priest. It was very highly suspected that inappropriate behavior initiated by the priest took place in the rectories. I am interested in opinions regarding why those complaints by the nuns have never surfaced? Your thoughts

In my old parish the rectory and the convent were far from each other, being separated by the large school building.

Come to think of it, I’ve never heard of such a thing.If I remember correctly, the nuns sometimes did light housekeeping (i.e., cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, serving meals, cleaning up, and any other job the priest wanted done).

[Schaumburger]

I think the church hierarchy here in the US may want to start listening to the laity who give of their time and treasure. For many Catholics the days of "pay, pray and obey" are coming to an end.

[My Post]

Originally Posted by Schaumburger

For many Catholics the days of "pay, pray and obey" are coming to an end.

This is definitely true. Salena Zito, the reporter and life long Pittsburgher and life long practicing Catholic has been writing about this a lot......I like her twitter feed.

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I hear you with my heart. Our family sees this latest terrible concealment as the death knoll for the American Catholic Church. I have many beautiful memories of important life moments that will always be with me. I KNOW good men and women who were true to their vows and an inspiration to their flock. The truth is that celibacy isn't normal. I believe that it was expected because of it's sacrifice to God. People need the cherishing love of another human. That doesn't change the way I feel about the Eucharist. I know the pitfalls of all organized religion and I fight to have faith in God. Because no matter how smart you are, how "realistic" you are, there are times that we all fall to our knees. I feel sad for people who have no faith at all.

Very heartfelt and rational post Gracie. Faith is never easy, but it is times like these that test it greatly. Faith in a church a church leader or a religion is often ill-placed, faith in God is not.

[SFSkol]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I merely was attempting to state that out of the total population of those "involved" those participating in wrong doing do not represent the majority. While not knowing exact numbers one can pretty much expect numbers to statistically follow the pattern of Paredo's Law (the 80-20 rule)......

Pareto principle - Wikipedia
...The idea has a rule of thumb application in many places, but it is commonly misused. For example, it is a misuse to state a solution to a problem "fits the 80/20 rule" just because it fits 80% of the cases; it must also be that the solution requires only 20% of the resources that would be needed to solve all cases. Additionally, it is a misuse of the 80/20 rule to interpret a small number of categories or observations.

If the subset of the total population; priests, nuns, pastors, et al, Pareto would predict that 20% would perform crimes, we would have a much more serious social issue.

...I KNOW good men and women who were true to their vows and an inspiration to their flock....

It is preposterous to assume that anyone KNOWS their clergy friends are as pious as they portray. That being said, I have known many of the deeply religious that I believe are good people, with good intentions and hearts.

[Abby10]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Very heartfelt and rational post Gracie. Faith is never easy, but it is times like these that test it greatly. Faith in a church a church leader or a religion is often ill-placed, faith in God is not.

You nailed it, Coach! Was trying to think of a way to say this, but you said it best.

[PennBF]

I was the son of a Protestant Minister and raised in the Parsonage all my life. My wife, who I married 20+ years ago had been a Nun in a Convent. Neither of us miss our young lives and the experiences afterwards. The Church is a great place for pedophiles to hide. It should be noted that pedophiles are not only in the Catholic Clergy but the behavior is shared by all religions. The Catholic Church may have a better chance of that being a hiding place of choice because of the demand of the life style ordered by the church. The fact the church does not make the consequences equal to the crime is most likely a decision based on "costs". That is really a sad testimony to the churches dedication to their true calling. I should add that in fact the Nuns have no power, it is all with the Priests. Some convents are more strict than others but that does not detract from the Priest controlling their lives.

[Edjkoz]

There was one incident in our parish when I was in grammar school. A priest molested a student. The next day, the seventh and eighth grade boys waited outside of church for the priest. They beat him so badly he had to go to the hospital and was never seen again. No more problems in the parish ever again

[Nucky]

Originally Posted by Edjkoz

There was one incident in our parish when I was in grammar school. A priest molested a student. The next day, the seventh and eighth grade boys waited outside of church for the priest. They beat him so badly he had to go to the hospital and was never seen again. No more problems in the parish ever again

Good job. Which part of N.J. are you from?

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by Abby10

You nailed it, Coach! Was trying to think of a way to say this, but you said it best.

Agree!

[Bleudeturquoise]

Mass of Forgiveness
Was the Bishop's letter regarding sex abuse report read at the Catholic churches in The Villages?