[justjim]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I don't disagree, but your original post was about paying athletes who play well, and comparing that to education. Throwing money at education will not improve it unless you hold the teachers and the schools accountable for what they do for the money. We are spending plenty of money for education and not getting an adequate return on the investment. You can pay a lousy teacher $10 million per year but that will not make them teach any better.

As a general statement, teachers are underpaid and definitely under appreciated. Many times they are not only a teacher but “parents”for the kids too. You should talk to some teachers and there are a lot of excellent teachers. BTW there is a critical shortage of teachers. Not all facilities are like those at Middleton either. Sports do have a big part to play especially at the middle school and high school level of education. A good coach and their assistant can make a difference in the lives of their students.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

If you understand how admissions works at colleges and universities, you would know how insignificant SAT scores are in today’s acceptances. Most have abandoned its requirement as there are many more metrics out there that are not standardized in nature.... to judge the merits of a prospective student. AP level course load an example! The SAT only intended benefit was to barcode tests to pinpoint problem teachers....fair enough. But that is public bureaucracy at its finest....and it failed.
Your take on private schools clearly is a regional observation, as the majority of private schools have no religious affiliations.....what you’re talking about is parochial school. To say that ’parental involvement’ is higher with parents of private or parochial students vs those of public school parents.....on its face is an ignorant statement.

My experience is regional, Chicago / Illinois where the teachers union, CTU and NEA is very influential and the educational experience of the student is much less rewarding in the public system. Parents who are willing to pay the tuition for private schools over and above the taxes they pay do so for the most part so their children get a better education and are likewise more involved. The parochial aspect of the education was not as much a motivation factor to most of the parents I have talked with. Taking road trips with my son looking a different colleges, talking to the admissions people you find out just how much a Chicago/Illinois public education is valued and of course also reflected in SAT scores of the students. Opposition to a voucher system is only self protection for the teachers union

[huge-pigeons]

Schools today want to dumb down students, not increase their intelligence. Look at some mandates that have been put in place these last few years: no more tests because too many can’t pass them, or anybody can get into any public university without any prescreening/testing. In the future you will have surgeons that can’t read or write because it’s mandatory you hire from all pools.

The plus I see from students getting paid in high school is the kid doesn’t have to cut his daily sports training short (if this is what they want to do later in life) to cut grass to make a couple dollars.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by blueash

I wonder if you would care to document your "fact"? You know, real numbers. I will go first. Ohio State leads the nation in income from sports In 2023 it received about 280 million income and spent 275 million on athletics so the University pocketed about 5 million in profit to use for non athletic purposes. Don't believe me... here is the report summary


Now that is pretty meaningless unless you know the total non-sports budget of OSU. If it is 10 million then the 5 million sports profit is huge. But the real fact, the truth is that for 2024 the budget for OSU is over 9 billion dollars. The 2024 and 2025 budget is here.

So tell me again about how sports income is the economic engine for D1 schools when the biggest receiver of sports income gets almost no net income from its sports program.

OSU running a profit at all is not the usual. Here is the key quote from a PBS review of the issue
"expenditures by college athletics departments are such that, with the exception of a small number of schools, athletic expenses surpass revenues at the overwhelming majority of Division I programs"

So your fact is not holding up very well to the light of actual information. Opinions based on false beliefs are a big thing in the country right now. See my tag line.

My point is/was D1 sports brings in more REVENUE than the academic departments that I listed. We’re not talking about how they expend said revenue. It’s just a fact. Geno Auriemma, the UConn women’s basketball head coach just signed a multi year extension worth close to 18M ....show me the department heads of the ones I listed that clear those kinds of contracts. You’re talking operational costs.....at OSU (a state school) obviously the tax payer is the largest underwriter of the operation but as far as which part of the university community ‘generates’ the most revenue for the school (non taxpayer) its the athletic side. As far as your tag line...since you fashion yourself as a ‘critical thinker’....maybe you should spend more time on critical reading and comprehension!

[Mrmean58]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

NIL resulted from the NCAA monopolization of its student athletes. The fact is....college sports are the economic engine for most D1 colleges/universities.....not the Sci Tech, Biology and History buildings on said campuses. You can make an argument that that is the wrong priority...but you can’t argue the fact. Because NIL was a result of court action....it’s implementation and roll out was pretty unrestricted. I think it needs to be scaled at some point. As far as HS athletes...there simply isn’t that much of an NIL marketplace unless you were some sort of generational talent or Lebrons kid! In either case, if someone is making money off of your name, image or likeness....I definitely have no problem with anyone....regardless of age, ‘copyrighting’ their brand from these ‘pirates’!

So now that there is a movement toward student athletes becoming "employees" of their university by getting paid by the school, will the student athletes be responsible for income taxes on the value of their education. Schools such as Harvard, USC, Stanford etc are now charging $85k per year plus in tuition. What about the value of the nutritional three squares the athletes get at their training table daily? I fear a Pandora box has been opened that can never be closed. In the real corporate world, employees are responsible for the taxes on any additional benefits they received over a certain threshold.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by Mrmean58

So now that there is a movement toward student athletes becoming "employees" of their university by getting paid by the school, will the student athletes be responsible for income taxes on the value of their education. Schools such as Harvard, USC, Stanford etc are now charging $85k per year plus in tuition. What about the value of the nutritional three squares the athletes get at their training table daily? I fear a Pandora box has been opened that can never be closed. In the real corporate world, employees are responsible for the taxes on any additional benefits they received over a certain threshold.

Do you really think....let’s use as an example Liv Dunne from LSU, a gymnast who is generating multi millions yearly in NIL...is going to care if she has to pay for state tuition out of that income? Which btw...all the athletes are subject to withholding as expected. Most are on scholarship anyway as these schools want the exposure said athletes bring to their schools. The Harvard example is really not a great one because unless an athlete can attract NIL interest, it’s a non issue

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by huge-pigeons

Schools today want to dumb down students, not increase their intelligence. Look at some mandates that have been put in place these last few years: no more tests because too many can’t pass them, or anybody can get into any public university without any prescreening/testing. In the future you will have surgeons that can’t read or write because it’s mandatory you hire from all pools.

The plus I see from students getting paid in high school is the kid doesn’t have to cut his daily sports training short (if this is what they want to do later in life) to cut grass to make a couple dollars.

You need to raise your social justice sensitivity a few noches , competence is not what it is about, Diversity Inclusion, Equity is what's really important

[Marine1974]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I agree, but paying teachers more money, as the OP implied, would not improve education either.

You think they could reimburse teachers that have to buy supplies out of their own pocket because they’re dedicated to educating your child and not paid enough .

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Agreed , private schools have a higher SAT result at a lower cost

I don’t think it’s because the private schools are inherently better. I think it’s because they can pick and choose their students. Students who aren't performing well or are troublesome are kicked out. Public schools have to take everyone.

And, yes, I know a kid who was kicked out of a catholic school because his grades were poor.

[waterflower]

Home School our children.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by Marine1974

You think they could reimburse teachers that have to buy supplies out of their own pocket because they’re dedicated to educating your child and not paid enough .

Good point
You have too many ‘helicopter parents’ out there that will never understand that

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by huge-pigeons

Schools today want to dumb down students, not increase their intelligence. Look at some mandates that have been put in place these last few years: no more tests because too many can’t pass them, or anybody can get into any public university without any prescreening/testing. In the future you will have surgeons that can’t read or write because it’s mandatory you hire from all pools.

The plus I see from students getting paid in high school is the kid doesn’t have to cut his daily sports training short (if this is what they want to do later in life) to cut grass to make a couple dollars.

I'm not sure that the goal is "dumbing down". The Three R's are still taught. Rather, there seems to be a concentrated effort in public elementary and secondary schools seems to be to teach kids WHAT, rather than how, to think; not as a replacement for the aforesaid Three R's, but certainly (it seems) as co-equals.

Not all kids go with that particular flow however. My step-granddaughter graduated last week from one of the largest public high schools in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro area. Top-of-the-class student. National Honor Society. The recipient of three rather handsome scholarships for college. I doubt she'll need them: she has worked full-time summers the past two years for the University of Minnesota Extension, as well as for her high school during the school year (both before and after classes end for the day), and managed to save up to buy her own car (cash) as well as accumulate a significant savings account for college. Those scholarships are nice but I have little doubt that she would make it on her own without them. She certainly doesn't lack ambition.

Her goal is to be a teacher, and to that end she has already enrolled in a smaller University in the University of Minnesota system in a small town in the Southwestern part of the state: one with more traditional values than one would expect, considering its affiliation. The values at this college and in the area where it is located line up with hers: not pie-in-the-sky wishfulness or marching in lockstep to some cotton-candy "cause", but instead a dedication to hard work; interpersonal relations that stress the virtues of honesty. dependability and morality; and respect for one's fellow human beings. I have no doubt she'll make it. She's a whiz at the Three R's, so that won't be a problem. But along with that she intends to bring to her students an ethic, and a view of what life SHOULD be; to prepare them for life as it SHOULD be lived. I equally have no doubt that she will succeed at that, as well.

eighteen-year-old idealism? Maybe. But America would be a far better place if more people shared it.

[dtennent]

Competition cuts both ways. In the 50’s and 60’s, the teaching profession was one of the few that readily accepted women. As time went on, other areas offering higher salaries opened up to women. When I started in 1980 in Research and Development at a Fortune 500 company, there were 3 women who had Ph.D.s. ( out of 600+ scientists). When I retired, 4 of eight of my direct reports who were women, 3 with Ph.d.s. To expect the best and the brightest to take lower paying positions because they feel called to teach doesn’t work in a capitalist system. While I realize that some people do that, it doesn’t work in the larger picture.

[FredMitchell]

Originally Posted by justjim

...Is a “sports bubble” being created? Are sports more important than education?

Sports are more important to elite athletes because of its economic return on their investments.

Your opinion and mine about the value of sports versus education is irrelevant. The values are set by the world's population and their global economic decisions and a global sense of fairness to individuals and their rights to their names, reputation, etc.

How and whether educational institutions are taxed could change the economics. Do you have enough, time, energy and money to lobby for changes?

[GATORBILL66]

The NIL ruined college sports and now it is about to do the same for high school sports.