[senior citizen]

This is NOT "P"; just news.......some leaders have said that more young adults should go to college so they can undergo "indoctrination" to a secular world view.

In an hour-long interview with conservative television host , this person said:

"I understand why he wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely … The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."

He claimed that "62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it," ....... And he floated the idea of requiring that universities that receive public funds have "intellectual diversity" on campus.
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It obviously depends on the individual "youth"......but we've noticed that those who are super intelligent and think for themselves (or else follow their high school teachers and college professors opinions on the subject) do fall away from their parents/grandparents' family religion, while some "kids" are content to following the religion of their parents, no questions asked.

((We noticed that in New England universities there were more than their share of radical thinking high school teachers and college professors......))

However, the interior goodness is still there as these young to middle aged adults are now truly into quietly making the world a better place, inclusive for all, "giving back" or "paying it forward"........surprising people with their generosity ........so they are truly "living their religion or lack thereof" whether they realize it or not.

Not just religion but the "p" word which is illegal to say here. God only knows why.

Our son went into college as a conservative and came out as a liberal.

Now, still teaching his own youngsters to be kind and loving.......living the Christian principles without professing the faith of his ancestors.

Just not into sacraments, rituals and the "hierarchy" rules. Not into manmade religion.

Ditto for the wife who had a bad experience in the evangelical church of her youth. But, kinder more loving woman you've never met. Her children reflect that love and kindness to all.

Paying it forward on a daily basis and charitable acts, done quietly, is the path they are on.

However, this more "secular world view" is fostered at both high school and university level.......at least from what we've experienced.

[graciegirl]

As the twig is bent, the tree inclines.

[buggyone]

Well, we all did send our children to learn to think for themselves, didn't we?

If the idea was just to have a carbon copy of ourself, the child would have been home schooled in a vacuum and not given access to the thinking and actions of others.

[CFrance]

I agree with Buggy. All I care about is that they be responsible citizens and kind-hearted people who respect others' opinions. And that's what we got, and I think going to college helped them to further those qualities that we tried to model when they were growing up.

You have to let go. At some point they go on to be their own selves. We encouraged ours to leave the somewhat isolated, conservative community of west Michigan where kids stayed together from pre-school through college, and go find out that there were other types of people in the world. They took it and ran with it. I'm proud, but I miss them! Thank God for Skype.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

As the twig is bent, the tree inclines.

Sometimes so, sometimes not.

Both sides of our family (my husband's and mine) were all raised Roman Catholic and up to our generation, born circa 1945, we all followed in our parents footsteps for the most part, especially as far as the Catholic faith, sacraments such as baptism of the infants, First Holy Communion, Confirmation, etc. and of course Cathechism classes......plus being married in the church.

Now, some of our siblings (in later years) left the church and joined Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Presbyterian churches, etc.

The next generation of the family (the children of above siblings,etc.) joined EVANGELICAL CHURCHES and United Church of Christ churches..........etc .

Only one cousin's daughter and her husband have remained in the Roman Catholic church and baptized their infants, plus take them to Sunday mass. They are early 30's. Everyone else changed their
denominations.

The rest of the cousins and descendants have followed their own path of spirituality........obviously there has been a big sea change since we were married in our neighborhood church in 1965 and baptized our infants in 1968 and 1971........following our parents' religion.......

Times have changed......as all of these adult children went to university, moved away from either the old neighborhood, their home states, etc..........truly nothing has remained the same as far as religion goes. Our grandparents were VERY DEVOUT. I know they found peace , solace and beauty in attending daily mass.
Different world today.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Well, we all did send our children to learn to think for themselves, didn't we?

If the idea was just to have a carbon copy of ourself, the child would have been home schooled in a vacuum and not given access to the thinking and actions of others.

You are totally correct.

I do understand why they've all followed their own paths.

Both of ours, and their spouses, got a great education, have traveled the world, are successful in their careers and homelife. We are extremely proud of them and their children.......

It's not just our adult children, but all of our friends and neighbors kids as well.........although they respect their roots, they have chosen other paths........but in the larger scheme of things, we all can see it's all "worked out well"........

Our immigrant grandparents found solace in the old ways......
Our kids' generation were a different kind of pioneer.........
keeping what works for them, while discarding what was irrelevant.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Well, we all did send our children to learn to think for themselves, didn't we?

If the idea was just to have a carbon copy of ourself, the child would have been home schooled in a vacuum and not given access to the thinking and actions of others.

Is that really what you think home schooling is?

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by cfrance

i agree with buggy. All i care about is that they be responsible citizens and kind-hearted people who respect others' opinions. And that's what we got, and i think going to college helped them to further those qualities that we tried to model when they were growing up.

You have to let go. At some point they go on to be their own selves. We encouraged ours to leave the somewhat isolated, conservative community of west michigan where kids stayed together from pre-school through college, and go find out that there were other types of people in the world. They took it and ran with it. I'm proud, but i miss them! Thank god for skype.

ditto.......totally agree.........

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

You are totally correct.

I do understand why they've all followed their own paths.

Both of ours, and their spouses, got a great education, have traveled the world, are successful in their careers and homelife. We are extremely proud of them and their children.......

It's not just our adult children, but all of our friends and neighbors kids as well.........although they respect their roots, they have chosen other paths........but in the larger scheme of things, we all can see it's all "worked out well"........

Our immigrant grandparents found solace in the old ways......
Our kids' generation were a different kind of pioneer.........
keeping what works for them, while discarding what was irrelevant.

senior - Do you not know anyone who currently home schools their children and provides them with a real life orientation to same rather than to the one that mandates how they learn and limits what they learn? My niece home schools and her son is HARDLY a carbon copy and unaware of the thinking and actions of others! Matter of fact, as a challenged individual - he is even more aware of the narrow mindedness and slings and arrows of many in our society! He says he has more compassion for those folks than he does for kids challenged as he is! Whaddya think about that for a home schooled 14 yr old?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Is that really what you think home schooling is?

It's a large part of it. There were many, many home schoolers in west MI. It was all in large part about isolating the children from society and the things they might pick up from other kids at school. Parts of the area (Holland, MI, for example) had entire neighborhoods of the same religion. If you weren't part of that, their kids were not allowed to play with you. Realtors warned us and others away from certain areas when we moved there in the late '80s. They were almost all Christian Reformed or other extremely conservative religions in that area.

I used to go to buy sheet music from a store that sold home-schooling materials. Frequently there would be mothers there with all of their children. It was like you just let your dog free on the beach. They didn't know how to act in public. And I knew adults who grew up in such social isolation and were raising their children in the same manner. Carbon copies.

IMO the only good thing that comes out of home schooling is possibly a better education.

OK, ready for the storm of protest... But this is my opinion from having lived in the midst of the situation.

[graciegirl]

I think the saying I quoted means...That the most basic ideas of life: respect for others, doing what is responsible, making your own way, are instilled in children by the folks around them and who are loving them and teaching them when they are VERY young.

They may later change from Catholic to Protestant, From Democrat to Republican, from a golfer to a tennis player (OH GOD) from Religious to non religious, from non religious to religious, but it is very unlikely that they will become a crook, if they are raised by ethical parents.

But the name of the thread suggests that we should be talking about charitable acts rather than values in general.

We watched a report on TV this morning of a woman paying another woman's Walmart bill. I am not sure how I feel about that, other than the woman who did it is very kind. Is it the BEST way to help people? I don't know.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by CFrance

It's a large part of it. There were many, many home schoolers in west MI. It was all in large part about isolating the children from society and the things they might pick up from other kids at school. Parts of the area (Holland, MI, for example) had entire neighborhoods of the same religion. If you weren't part of that, their kids were not allowed to play with you. Realtors warned us and others away from certain areas when we moved there in the late '80s. They were almost all Christian Reformed or other extremely conservative religions in that area.
snipped

CFrance - You mention the 1980's! Is your post based on the '80s or today? Mine is based on my niece's family in the Bible belt of the south today!

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

snipped
We watched a report on TV this morning of a woman paying another woman's Walmart bill. I am not sure how I feel about that, other than the woman who did it is very kind. Is it the BEST way to help people? I don't know.

Does there have to be a BEST way or are we all better people if we simply practice the way the is RIGHT for us as individuals; thereby not limiting us to a singular BEST way and sharing a multitude of wonderful ways? I'm sure that's what you were thinking.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Does there have to be a BEST way or are we all better people if we simply practice the way the is RIGHT for us as individuals; thereby not limiting us to a singular BEST way and sharing a multitude of wonderful ways? I'm sure that's what you were thinking.

It WAS. And your clarifiying it, makes me feel better about myself.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

senior - Do you not know anyone who currently home schools their children and provides them with a real life orientation to same rather than to the one that mandates how they learn and limits what they learn? My niece home schools and her son is HARDLY a carbon copy and unaware of the thinking and actions of others! Matter of fact, as a challenged individual - he is even more aware of the narrow mindedness and slings and arrows of many in our society! He says he has more compassion for those folks than he does for kids challenged as he is! Whaddya think about that for a home schooled 14 yr old?

""Well, we all did send our children to learn to think for themselves, didn't we?""

""If the idea was just to have a carbon copy of ourself""......


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I believe I was responding to the first part of the message; not necessarily the home schooling part..........

Overly strict parents can still send their kids to public school while raising them in a "vacuum" at home.......

Actually, I've only known one family that home schooled their five children........who all turned out beautifully......however, not sure if they are truly prepared for college........as music was the primary focus. They were devout Catholics, lived a rural existence and probably wanted to shelter them from the public school system. Very polite nice teenagers now. Very helpful.

Again, not that familiar with home schooling......

Your niece's son sounds like a remarkable young man.

In all fairness to us, when our two kids were at the university, both in their junior years.......they each wrote a letter to myself and my husband, thanking us for the way we raised them, saying that everything they achieved they owed to us.........and then again, similar notes were given to us at their weddings, thanking us for all the love and support we gave them growing up.......and for "staying together" when many of their friends came from broken homes. Both have achieved success in their careers and with their own families...........so I guess public schools were fine, even though they learned to "think for themselves".........let's put it that way. They knew they had a stable home life growing up, but we also gave them "wings" to fly..........a balancing act.