[blueash]

The horrible explosion in West, Tx which killed 14 and leveled the neighborhood is not just an unavoidable industrial accident. Worker safety whether it be protecting our police and firefighters, mine workers, or nurses from needle sticks are all regulated by state and federal requirements for reporting and training and maintaining a safe work environment. When safety rules either do not exist or are flouted and ignored disasters happen as they did in Bangladesh this week with a building collapse, and in Texas last week. All of us have an interest in seeing that ourselves, our children and our grandchildren have the benefit of enforcement of safety regulations just as we benefit from enforcement of food handling regulations in the places where we eat. Ammonium Nitrate is what Timothy McVeigh used to create the explosion in Oklahoma City. It's storage is regulated by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) which tells you how seriously this stuff is to be taken.

If you have over 400 lbs. stored you are required to report to DHS. For illustration we will say 400 lbs is one X. Here is how much was in the facility in West Texas which never reported when it exploded:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Boom. Texas fertilizer company didn't heed disclosure rules before blast | Reuters

By the way, McVeigh's bomb XXXXXXXXXX

[gomoho]

So I'm wondering if they had that much in storage why they weren't on Homeland Security's radar - another government boondoggle??? I know the owner had a responsibility, but these government entities are supposed to be our eyes and ears. This is not a political statement, but a government one.

[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by gomoho

So I'm wondering if they had that much in storage why they weren't on Homeland Security's radar - another government boondoggle??? I know the owner had a responsibility, but these government entities are supposed to be our eyes and ears. This is not a political statement, but a government one.

As I understand it, they were required to report it...but chose not to.

I doubt Homeland Security has enough resources, to inspect every facility on a regular basis.

It's a travesty and tragedy that profits/efficiency, seem to have been more important than regulations and safety procedures.


.

[janmcn]

It's too bad that this disaster didn't get the attention it deserved due to the marathon bombing in Boston. These poor people don't have a Boston One Fund raising millions of dollars. They don't have universal health care as they do in Massachusetts. Texas has the lowest percentage of population insured of any state in the country.

By the time the investigation finds the company was at fault, it will be a page 8 story. The company will pay a few million dollar fine and perhaps some middle manager will go to jail. It's the same story as the BP oil spill, which ruined the Gulf for all eternity, the WV mine disaster, the Exxon tar oil spill in Arkansas, and on and on and on.

And do they have such a thing as a zoning board? Why was this plant allowed to exist next to an elementary school, a nursing home and an apartment house?

Even the president's attendance at the memorial service didn't bring the attention to this disaster that it deserved.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by gomoho

So I'm wondering if they had that much in storage why they weren't on Homeland Security's radar - another government boondoggle??? I know the owner had a responsibility, but these government entities are supposed to be our eyes and ears. This is not a political statement, but a government one.

I would take it as a governmental comment. Sadly according the DHS they were never made aware this facility existed as the owners or whomever else may have had a responsibility never did what they were supposed to do, report. Apparently the state of Texas was aware of the plant but not of the storage of ammonia nitrate. I have looked but cannot find what the local county or city ordinances might be. I also haven't been able to find what the rules are near the Villages and whether there might be similar facilities nearby.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by OnTrack

As I understand it, they were required to report it...but chose not to.

I doubt Homeland Security has enough resources, to inspect every facility on a regular basis.

It's a travesty and tragedy that profits/efficiency, seem to have been more important than regulations and safety procedures.


.

I agree with you. I am hopeful that whatever local, state or federal investigations are surely underway will inform us whether the owners/operators were aware of the regulations and ignored them or whether they were ignorant of the rules and perhaps even didn't know the nature of the material they had on hand.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by janmcn

It's too bad that this disaster didn't get the attention it deserved due to the marathon bombing in Boston. These poor people don't have a Boston One Fund raising millions of dollars. They don't have universal health care as they do in Massachusetts. Texas has the lowest percentage of population insured of any state in the country.

By the time the investigation finds the company was at fault, it will be a page 8 story. The company will pay a few million dollar fine and perhaps some middle manager will go to jail. It's the same story as the BP oil spill, which ruined the Gulf for all eternity, the WV mine disaster, the Exxon tar oil spill in Arkansas, and on and on and on.

And do they have such a thing as a zoning board? Why was this plant allowed to exist next to an elementary school, a nursing home and an apartment house?

Even the president's attendance at the memorial service didn't bring the attention to this disaster that it deserved.

I agree which is why I posted this thread which will not get as many reads as dog poop or golf cart drivers but perhaps the graphic of just how much explosive was stored next to a school and a nursing home will give people a moment of pause, and maybe a little moment of silence for those who died.

[gomoho]

So where did they get all this explosive material - was it bought over an extended period of time or in a short duration of time - should that have been reported. Too many unanswered questions. I am by no means excusing the owners of this disaster, but we pay so much in taxes for these government agencies that are supposed to oversee this stuff and they screw up all the time. It's getting old - where does the buck stop - who is responsible. Not political 'cause not referring to any party or individual - just wondering what is going on with the government we word so hard to support!

[KeepingItReal]

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[twinklesweep]

Originally Posted by blueash

I agree with you. I am hopeful that whatever local, state or federal investigations are surely underway will inform us whether the owners/operators were aware of the regulations and ignored them or whether they were ignorant of the rules and perhaps even didn't know the nature of the material they had on hand.

What difference does it make "whether the owners/operators were aware of the regulations and ignored them or whether they were ignorant of the rules and perhaps even didn't know the nature of the material they had on hand"? The responsibility for this disaster which killed 14, injured I have no idea how many, and destroyed a community lies with the owners/operators. The government has its regulatory agencies, yes, but we don't (yet) live in a police state. In China, for example, they can publicly execute plant owners who produced poisoned baby formula (in all likelihood because of the ever more common greed factor), but not here. I cannot imagine anyone in any way implying that the owners/operators are not responsible, no matter what their excuses will prove to be.

[OnTrack]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

I cannot imagine anyone in any way implying that the owners/operators are not responsible, no matter what their excuses will prove to be.

Sadly, it's not all that hard to imagine.

The ones who want to give the business owners excuses, will be a lot of the same people who believe the Boston bombings were much worse....simply because of the perp's involved.

When in fact, the death and destruction of the incident in Texas....was magnitudes greater.

Here's hoping that those poor folks in Texas, get the help that the victims in Boston are getting.


.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

After many years of using ammonia nitrate and sodium nitrate to side dress both corn and tobacco I wanted to note a couple items. It was not unusual for us to have many tons stored in our barns for this purpose and there was no danger of it exploding...... Texas is one of only a very few that still use ammonia nitrate in this form. 270 Tons for a fertizer plant to have on hand is not really that much, after all a single farmer may use up to 100 tons and maybe more....
Ammonium nitrate is the fertilizer compound that can be used in explosives, "The ammonium nitrate is like the engine behind the explosion, but the engine needs fuel,"

Your post was accurate. Ammonium nitrate is not if lacking a triggering event, explosive. However both Mr. McVeigh and this facility managed to have a triggering event occur. The largest non nuclear explosion in US history which killed nearly 600 was caused by ammonium nitrate and was in Texas Texas City disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Once the full details of the storage and handling of this material, as well as the wisdom of having it near propane tanks will make future writing of regulations more germane and hopefully enforcement of existing rules, whatever they may be in Texas, more vigorous.

[KeepingItReal]

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[senior citizen]

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