I have stayed out of the gun control discussion, largely because for some inexplicable reason it becomes highly politicized. Perhaps it is time for all Americans, including the NRA, to agree that assault weapons, oversized cartridge clips and the gun show exeption to gun registration need to be outlawed. Owning guns for personal safety, and/or hunting is a constitutional right that I agree with. However, I see NO reason that any law abiding citizen needs an assault or automatic weapon, or an oversized cartridge clip. We settled long ago on the prudence of requiring registration for those purchasing weapons, so why does the gunshow exemption persist? I own guns and come from a long line of hunters, yet I see no reason that anyone supports the issues I have outlined. The NRA is simply afraid that any control will ultimately lead to complete control of firearms, and that is simply not the will of the majority of the people in my opinion. We need to keep the right to bear "reasonable" arms that make sense for civilians, but not weapons that should only be in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement officers. I expect to hear opposition to this opinion - so be it.

All I know is that anybody over 40 NEVER had to fear this sort of insanity when they went to school. I have all sorts of thoughts as to why this is, but if I write them I will fall into disfavor with the Board Police for being political.

:agree:
Growing up in Michigan, I had my 1st gun (20 guage bolt-action shotgun) at 14. Many a meal from pheasant, partridge, and squirrels.
I think the NRA should get out in front on this issue, they have the knowledge and expertise to make a difference. However, I don't think today's NRA is the same one as I remember from many years ago, so I'm not really optimistic.

No opposition here.

Very true: I was an NRA member for many years, but dropped my membership when they began to get politically involved in a very partisan and devisive way.

the guns as already stated are not the problem.
We have become, like it or not, an anything goes society....swearing is common place in public, movies, television....killing in entertainment is common place in the news, the movies and on television...ditto sex....ditto people slaughtering people.

AND GOD forbid anymore that we try to do something about and bring into action every political, special interest group, minority group (not referring to race) who MIGHT object. And as a result the now all too common place linguine spined leaders at every level who fear to offend somebody for something.

We continue to allow the degrading of core valuesthat actually punish those who do wrong.

It is not the guns....look in the mirror....we the people have become so permissive we have no idea anymore what to do when something bad happens or when someone does something bad.

GOD forbid we try to use dicipline...punishment...or law enforcement.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS.....that is a cop out, political issue that will solve absolutely nothing.

Does anyone think for one minute that gun control would have prevented the lunatic of today from employing some other means of accomplishing the need to do some killing? Of course not.

IT AIN'T THE GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

You are right - to a degree. It is not JUST the guns!!!!!! Most of what you say is contributory, but add to those issues the easy access to guns and you have a volitile mix. I know dozens, maybe hundreds, of hunters and gun owners, yet I know no one that owns an automatic weapon or "assault weapon". I think the position that it is not the guns, fails to recognize a part of the problem that is key, and seems to justify the mentality of troubled people who amass weapons intended to do harm to people. I have heard the catchphrase, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Sounds reasonable, but I would revise it to say, guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.

Too bad you're not in Newtown CT tonight to preach your sermon to the parents of those 20 young children or the families of the adults that died today.

If the guy had to reload instead of getting off 100 rounds at a time, there is a chance the outcome may have been different. For sure, with the weapons, there was no possible outcome other than what happened. I honestly don't understand WHAT the defense is for having assault and automatic weapons. Just because the constitution gives us the right to bear arms, does that include nuclear bombs? Where do you draw the line to have a reasonable right to bear arms versus unrealistic absurdity. THERE IS NO REASONABLE REASON TO HAVE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.

You are correct about the politics of this issue. It already started on MSNBC...very specifilly

I do not like guns, never used guns, and in my gut agree on the atutomatic weapons.

On the other hand, when we look at these sad situations as a gun only problem we really do a disservice to the country. This is BASICALLY a result of the total breakdown in our society and not just guns. BUT ongoing conversations will ignore that aspect and focus on guns only. Those who think this is a GUN problem have their head deep in the sand

Sadly, gun control becomes the topic of conversation when an incident such as this occurs...

Yet, no one ever looks beyond...i.e., why does a young person turn to such violence...could it be the result of seeing nothing but violence on tv...in the news...in games, on the internet, at the movies...

I agree with some of the above posts...in my day, I never feared someone coming to school with a gun. Then again, the most violent things I witnessed on tv was the light-hearted cartoon "Heckle and Jeckle."

And, the evening news was filled with fact-checked information...not speculation and competitive "breaking" news scripted to gain larger viewing audiences.

Oh what I wouldn't give to see two old crows back on television!

Controlling guns only takes away freedoms from law-abiding citzens. While it is a trite saying it is true.."If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns". Do you really think that taking away guns from legal, law-abiding citizens is going to matter one whit to the thugs and the crazies who can get them illegally? Every major city in this country has thousands of thugs running around with illegally gotten guns. They cannot legally possess them because they are convicted criminals or head cases but they have them just the same, and they will continue get them if guns are taken from law-abiding citizens. Cocaine is illegal everywhere in the USA. That hasn't stopped it from being a billion dollar illegal business in the USA. Do you want THAT kind of business going on with guns?

Also fully-automatic weapons are completely illegal for private use, so if this guy was using a fully-automatic weapon then he had it illegally. The illegality of it all didn't stop him, did it?

It is not a one or the other issue. Clearly the biggest problem is the gunman, the sociopath. However, that does not preclude the contributory factor of readily available weapons. Both need to be dealt with.

My prayers to those who are grieving tonite. They are living every parents nightmare of laying to rest one of there children ,,, children are suppose to bury the parents not the other way around.. Godspeed

I agree with Justjac. In our society, we need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

Ed, I so agree.
These mass killings are not something we can tolerate. What more has to happen ??? These were tiny young innocents. We can't just have these shootings going on and on.

My heart goes out to the victims families, friends and the entire community of Newtown, Conn. No one should have to suffer the loss of loved one especially in such a horrific way.
We should all pray for the families and friends of the victims.

I don't think cocaine ever killed an Kindergarten class... FYI guns were purchased legally but they were semi-automatic. I support restrictions for semi, auto and extended clips.

I agree. The guns were legally registered to the killer's mother, the kindergarten teacher. I do not understand why she needed, or wanted, these guns. I do not understand why anyone not fighting a war needs these weapons.

While I understand your position, your revised saying is not true. I have owned guns for many years (40 or so) and I have never even pointed one of my guns at anyone. Yes, guns in the hands of the wrong people - criminals, sociopaths etc. are dangerous. I would venture to say that these types of people can get their hands on a weapon, whether bought from another criminal or stolen, very easily.

There are, however, millions of law abiding citizens who own guns for recreation. So YES - guns do kill people - in the hands of the wrong person. Which I do believe may be to what you were referring. Correct me if I am wrong.

Guns kill people in the same way that forks made me fat.

Don't forget spoons !!!!

Two things about banning automatic weapons to prevent such massacres or reducing the numbers killed:

1. "What's now beyond dispute — largely from the [Columbine] killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off......" (*)

2. The 9-1-1 Massacre was accomplished with bombs consisting of loaded for cross-country jet fuel tanks flown into the buildings.

When sick minds are set on doing a massacre, they will find a way to do it regardless of the legality of the various types of guns.

To me, the common denominator in most of these mass shootings such as Columbine, Ft. Hood, Tuscon, Denver Theater, Virginia Tech and probably this latest massacre in Newtown is that school and military (Ft. Hood and Walter Reed) faculty, justice system authorities and counseling professionals knew long before the events that these killers were sick enough in the head to be planning and capable of carrying out such an event.

But "privacy" laws and notions, maintaining a good institutional image, and political correctness are helping to keep such individuals and their evil, sick propensities under wraps and they are allowed to be free to stalk and plan and execute.

I suspect the killer in this case, too, was known to have a history of sick and twisted thinking but more and more kids and classmates have been taught to be "tolerant" and "nonjudgmental". Those two good concepts have become distorted to the point of many young people thinking it's worse to be "judgemental" than it is to be planning an evil, murderous and suicidal killing spree.

(*) 10 years later, the real story behind Columbine - USATODAY.com

Cocaine has killed, addicted and sickend thousands.

yes but cocaine did that to people who chose to use it, not a classroom full of 5 year olds.

I support the ban of high capacity clips, auto and semi automatic weapons and body armor.

Tis true as each has to be used... It's called cause and effect!

First and foremost is the incredible sorrow I feel for the innocent souls of Newtown. May God shower comfort on us all during this terrible time.

The real cop out is to say things like, Guns don't kill people, people kill people or The crazy will just find another way if you ban guns. I sincerely believe it is the assault weapons, extended clips and automatic firing that give these cowards the False courage to carry out these wicked acts. Even if I am dead wrong, would America be any worse off if we were free of these fire arms capable of mass killings?

If anyone out there has the ability to set up a responsible gun owners group that would work toward banning Assault Weapons, Extended Clips, Automatic Firing and more stringent rules for gun shows, Add me to your notification as I will be happy to volunteer for that cause in any way I can. Keep in mind that the opposition will say the government is trying to erode gun owners rights. That is false as gun ownership should not mean that any citizen can own and operate military style weaponry on our streets.

Absolutely, we give them all this to watch and then provide them with the same assault weapons to carry it out and be the star of their own video games.

No one needs assault weapons. Video games are WAY too violent. Ethics aren't allowed to be taught in schools and there is a lot wrong with our society


Little ones have been murdered. Their parents lives will never, ever completely be happy again. The small innocents just went to school. We all have sent our children to school. I taught kindergarten for decades. They are the most wonderful age of all.

We are all mourning and in so doing we are going through all of the reactions; shock, anger, confusion. We are just incredulous.

I post too much. We all talk too much sometimes. There aren't any easy answers here. We can't say it was caused by this or this or would not have happened because of this or this. We are the older generation, supposedly the wise ones, we should be able to see this all clearer somehow.

We don't know if this man was sane or angry or raised with no moral compass. We don't know and if we did, what could we do?

It is just awful and doesn't look any better after we slept on it.

I feel so bad for all of us kind and loving people who just are absolutely powerless to help or to comfort.

God help us all.



We are all together in trying to absorb how anyone could do this, ever.

I'm with you.

Just imagining the fear that those innocent kindergarteners, as well as the other grades of children, experienced from a deranged youth who obviously was mentally ill..........makes me think of my own grandbabies.

God only knows why his mom, knowing his condition, would even have owned guns in the first place.

That community and that part of Connecticut is a lovely place, where people moved to live in peace and harmony and raise their innocent children in a safe environment.

Someone else mentioned that we are all supposed to (nowadays) tolerate people like the shooter and it is part of the problem. Even in our town, we know of "youth" and "middle aged" folks who are all on psychotropic drugs due to mental issues. Sometimes a cocktail of drugs.

These drugs all interact differently, depending on one's system.

We've been told by a local sheriff (neighbor) to lock our doors and be careful if dealing with a certain one or two individuals.....one a teenager, the other a preppy guy who graduated Harvard. Go figure. They come in all shapes and sizes and ages. No one knows what "meds" their neighbor is on or what cocktail of drugs......and when they are going to explode.
..........usually venting their misplaced anger on totally innocent little angels such as those in Connecticut yesterday..........it's very sad for the parents, especially leading up to Christmas......which will always be a sad reminder, year after year.

My prayers also went out to the families of the teachers and principal, etc.,having educators in our family and extended family. One never imagines when they are going to step into a schoolroom setting and experience pure evil. I envisioned my son when he was in kindergarten and our daughter, ditto.......and all of our grandchildren, ditto.......and it was heart wrenching to think of them mowed down by guns........of any kind.

My husband has always been a hunter and is for hunter's rights and citizens rights to "bear arms"........but it's how do you keep them out of the hands of the deranged folks? We also remember Columbine in Colorado as if it were yesterday..........and Virginia Tech, etc., etc.

P.S.
Our town's morning newspaper said that the shooter was an honors student, his mom was a decent person........his brother claims he had a "personality disorder" and someone else claims he was "autistic". I know what autism is. I do not think that is connected to the personality disorder part. I have two 40 some year old nieces who are both autistic, but the condition seems to run on the German side of their mother's family.....uncles, aunts, etc. They are both mute. I don't believe this boy was mute, or at least that part of it has not been published..........of course, there are different parts of the "autism spectrum" such as asburgers syndrome, etc.

My neices both have "hearts of gold" and although mute.....do write long letters. I would never be afraid of either one of them or expect any acting out like in CT.

The personality disorder might have been bi polar / schizophrenia.........like our neighbors whom we've been warned against by the sheriff. They have "attacked" their parents........and spouse........not fatally, but they have had police to the house on many occasions and been confined to mental facilities.

As it stands, with the killer dead.........he's taken his "reasons" to the grave with him.

His mom cannot speak, that's for sure. Only his dad and brother remain to shed some light on it all.........if they can. WE noticed his bro was taken in handcuffs to be questioned. Is that common procedure when you are innocent? We were surprised.

I know there was a mix up in the names in the beginning and Ryan, the living bro, was the suspected killer........later it was Adam.

His brother was taken into custody because his ID was found on the suspect's body. He was not charged.

I agree. Why do people who are not in law enforcement, military, etc. need those types of weapons and body armor? To all of the people who think its their right, try explaining that to 26 grieving families this morning.

I can't understand why the shooter's mother didn't keep her four legally registered guns locked up, if it was known that the shooter had mental problems. If she had, she might be alive today along with the others.

I have read all the posts on this. It will not be long before the object, guns, are blamed for what happened, taking all the responsibility away from the person. It seems that none of us are no longer held responsible for what we do, it is always someone else’s fault.


Well, folks, look in the mirror, that is the person who is responsible for this and the other horrendous acts of violence that have taken place in the past few years. That’s right, you, me and the rest of us. We have taught our children that they can do no wrong. If they do, and someone else corrects them, we, the parents come to their aid and defend them, making the other person look in the wrong. Shame on us. Back in my school days and play days, if I misbehaved in school or at a neighbors house and got in trouble, I could expect, double when I got home. Now if a teacher or neighbor says anything to “your child” you sue, telling your child it’s not their fault, its that mean person for saying something to you, even if the child is at fault.

Just look around us here in The Villages. How many of you stop at all stop signs, use your turn signals, let you underage grandchild drive your golf cart? You are just enforcing the fact that rules don’t apply to you ot them, only to the other person.

Will more incidents like this happen, ya bettcha, they will until we step up to the plate and take responsibility back and make our children understand that they have to be responsible for their actions.

Look at who we vote for and send to office. They make rules for us that they don’t have to follow. We allowed this, never said a word, and now we are reaping what we have sowed.

Shame on us. It’s time to make everyone take personal responsibility for their actions again and quite blaming any object for our misguided actions.

So if you are brave enough, look in the mirror and get busy changing things.

Are you saying that everybody in the other industrial countries of the world take personal responsibility, except in the United States?

Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 48, Great Britain 8, Switzerland 34, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, UNITED STATES 10,728. source NRA

No, I really don't care what the other countries are doing. If you will do some research, you will find that a lot of the gun deaths in the US are gang related and that the children killing children are gang members.

People join gangs because it gives them a "family" to relate to and rules to follow. If you don't follow the gang rules there are consequences. To bad it not the same in the "real family."

Some of us are no less emtionally affected by the tragedy than another....others may try to measure that!!??

Some of us have opinions to offer that we believe could be/may be the cause or causes or contributors to the tragedy.

Let's try to continue to express our sympathy for those who lost their most precious possessions in this tragedy. And some of us hope that by expressing our opinions abaout the cause or causes that allowed this to happen will continue. And one day as a result will lead to meaningful prevention.

And hopefully those compelled to make totally and completely insensitive categorizations will abate until a more appropriate quorum.

btk

It appears so far and not all the evidence has come to light but I suspect that the shooters mother or both parents were irresponsible gun owners by not securing unauthorized access to these weapons. I'm sure there are many more problems this family had than we will ever know. Ct. has some of the toughest gun laws in this country. I feel it is a big truth today no one takes responsibility anymore for anything. I try not to dwell on ifs or maybe's. I'm actually just so saddened by the events that unfolded yesterday I only want to focus on the lives lost.

I concur that we should focus upon the loss of lives and those affected by the tragic events in Connecticut. We all search for how and why this could have happened - we tend to find "something" to hold accountable - finding "something" is easier that finding "someone". Having said that, we must also realize that, in the United States, we live in a culture of violence - a culture which we have allowed to germinate and one which is seemingly tolerated. The violence is real and the effects are so far reaching. Somehow, we must get beyond the dialogue and cultivate a climate of personal responsbility and accountability. And, we should never forget all those who were lost in this tragedy.