[PjLyness1965]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Note that the context of the thread is about a single private charity, and whether or not donors decide to give money to the charity's mission. It is not about whether a mental disability is the same as a physical disability. In my opinion, Tunnel to Towers has decided to significantly change and to expand their mission. Charity donors can decide to continue to support the charity or not, based on their view of the change in mission. It's their money to spend as they want. But, I certainly did not intend to insult any veteran who is legally entitled to a disability status of any type.

Well, you did. You implied that veterans are faking PTSD and that the VA claims process isn’t good enough for YOU when you don’t even know or understand what the process consists of. In fact, you stated you saw the two disabilities differently. You claim you didn’t want to start controversy, but you did it anyway by stating your discrimination.

[PjLyness1965]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Right there in your quote: *Some* *may* be. If there was even one that was fraudulent then that demonstrates the current screening process is not foolproof and there were four in just those two articles.

Nowhere did he imply that he knows better than the VA psychiatrists.

Take exception to what was written if it offends you, but at least read and understand what was written before taking exception to it.

Four people does not justify stating that the claims process is not “fool proof”. There are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of claims for veterans with PTSD. In fact, I would say it’s just the opposite when a fraction of a percent of claims are fraudulent. You have proven nothing other then you can defend ignorance while demonstrating your own. The OP was offensive and lacked facts to back it up and you still can’t defend it with any solid evidence.
I am calling out the audacity of the OP thinking he knows better than a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist with years of education and experience.
You and Mr. Retired guy have zero.
You have lost this argument, Bill. Accept it.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by PjLyness1965

Four people does not justify stating that the claims process is not “fool proof”. There are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of claims for veterans with PTSD. In fact, I would say it’s just the opposite when a fraction of a percent of claims are fraudulent. You have proven nothing other then you can defend ignorance while demonstrating your own. The OP was offensive and lacked facts to back it up and you still can’t defend it with any solid evidence.
I am calling out the audacity of the OP thinking he knows better than a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist with years of education and experience.
You and Mr. Retired guy have zero.
You have lost this argument, Bill. Accept it.

your right but don’t waste anymore breathe on these guys ,notice how the post has changed and how helpful by finding other charities that we can send money to ,I think there were expectations for this post to be joined by a whole lot of bashing of this charity and others and it didn’t happen

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Right there in your quote: *Some* *may* be. If there was even one that was fraudulent then that demonstrates the current screening process is not foolproof and there were four in just those two articles.

Nowhere did he imply that he knows better than the VA psychiatrists.

Take exception to what was written if it offends you, but at least read and understand what was written before taking exception to it.

Bill14564, why jump in with an asinine defense? No system is foolproof.

Besides, more veterans slip through the cracks than are successful with fraudulent claims. Why even debate this one?

retiredguy123 stepped in it and my guess is he knows that now. Bill, you are stepping in it, too.

My guess is neither of you ever saw combat, were ever in the military, and might not even be old enough to have had to be concerned about the draft.

If you have never experienced the horrors of combat or even served in the military, you should do some serious thinking before saying anything — no matter what — about PTSD claims being fraudulent.

I am so respectful of the term PTSD that I cannot stand it when people throw it around in a joking way, applying it, unthinkingly, to silly things.

In the Civil War it was called Soldier’s Heart. I can remember WWII veterans who were “shell shocked.” Now we call it PTSD. And as long as our species continues to wage war, the ongoing tragedies that can follow combat will be with us.

Please stop and think — and an apology wouldn’t hurt either.

Boomer, wife of Mr. Boomer, Green Beret

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Bill14564, why jump in with an asinine defense? No system is foolproof.

Besides, more veterans slip through the cracks than are successful with fraudulent claims. Why even debate this one?

retiredguy123 stepped in it and my guess is he knows that now. Bill, you are stepping in it, too.

My guess is neither of you ever saw combat, were ever in the military, and might not even be old enough to have had to be concerned about the draft.

If you have never experienced the horrors of combat or even served in the military, you should do some serious thinking before saying anything — no matter what — about PTSD claims being fraudulent.

I am so respectful of the term PTSD that I cannot stand it when people throw it around in a joking way, applying it, unthinkingly, to silly things.

In the Civil War it was called Soldier’s Heart. I can remember WWII veterans who were “shell shocked.” Now we call it PTSD. And as long as our species continues to wage war, the ongoing tragedies that can follow combat will be with us.

Please stop and think — and an apology wouldn’t hurt either.

Boomer, wife of Mr. Boomer, Green Beret

Yet another who did not read what was written.

No one disparaged a veteran... no one.
No one downplayed PTSD... no one.
Some emphatically argued that PTSD fraud does not occur... it does.
No one said all PTSD claims are fraudulent... no one.

It would be nice to read an apology from those who attack posters without first taking the time to read and understand the posts. But, this is ToTV and that just ain't gonna happen.

[Boomer]

Bill 14564, I am in the car right now on my way to be someone’s charming dinner guest, so I do not have time to point out the errors in your accusation that I don’t know how to read for content or understand the power of words.

I could put you through a lesson or two like some retired teacher, but I don’t have time right now.

Even though our OP stepped in it this time, he is one of the posters here that I always read and I am usually impressed, just not right now. Besides, we all step in it from time to time, but some of us can admit it.

Anyway, seeya.

Mrs. Boomer, Room 101, Comp & Speech

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Bill14564, why jump in with an asinine defense? No system is foolproof.

Besides, more veterans slip through the cracks than are successful with fraudulent claims. Why even debate this one?

retiredguy123 stepped in it and my guess is he knows that now. Bill, you are stepping in it, too.

My guess is neither of you ever saw combat, were ever in the military, and might not even be old enough to have had to be concerned about the draft.

If you have never experienced the horrors of combat or even served in the military, you should do some serious thinking before saying anything — no matter what — about PTSD claims being fraudulent.

I am so respectful of the term PTSD that I cannot stand it when people throw it around in a joking way, applying it, unthinkingly, to silly things.

In the Civil War it was called Soldier’s Heart. I can remember WWII veterans who were “shell shocked.” Now we call it PTSD. And as long as our species continues to wage war, the ongoing tragedies that can follow combat will be with us.

Please stop and think — and an apology wouldn’t hurt either.

Boomer, wife of Mr. Boomer, Green Beret

Boomer, I appreciate your post. I don't mind apologizing, but I don't think an apology is warranted in this case. I posted because I was disappointed with T2T when they seem to be making a radical change in the direction of their charity mission. Other posters expressed the same opinion. It was one of my favorite charities. I didn't reject PTSD as a valid disability claim. But, disability fraud is a reality that is even acknowledged by the VA. People who donate money to charity want to know that their money is used for a good purpose. Apparently, T2T is asking for donations to assist homeless veterans who have PTSD. Some posters described their experiences with PTSD, but they did not seem to be homeless, so they would not even benefit from the new T2T mission. I believe that homelessness is a complex issue and I don't think more money will solve it. These veterans already have access to medical treatment, and they receive additional money in disability benefits. Adding more money in the form of private donations is not the answer. I am also concerned that combining money for homeless veterans with the physically disabled veterans will dilute the assistance to the physically disabled veterans, which is an entirely different issue that can be helped with more money.

[Boomer]

Good morning, retiredguy123,

Thank you for your response to my response to your post.

I find myself half criticizing you and half defending you — almost, sort of defending you.

In your original post, it was the second part of the fourth sentence about not seeing, followed by the blanket statement of not trusting the process, that mostly caused the reactions from several posters, including me. Words carry weight and words like ‘PTSD’ and ‘trust’ carry a lot of weight, as does the word ‘veteran.’

Those two sentences were perceived by some of us to be kicking someone who is down — down due to circumstances that were not of their own making and that’s what started the criticism, along with the unfair judgment of the qualifying process as not being worthy of trust — which was a statement that painted with a very wide brush.

Military experience ( both good and bad) gives a perspective on a lot of things that those who have not served cannot understand. My guess is that you were never in the military. But — the fact that your favorite charity helps veterans speaks well of your respect for veterans and shows that you care — so for that part, I can see that your actions speak louder than words. . .Maybe just try to be more aware of the weight of words.

And sooooo, I still say you stepped in it, BUT like in a lot of cases of “stepping in it” — I don’t think you really meant to.

Boomer

[JMintzer]

An awful lot of "First Rule of Holes" violations in this thread...