[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by Advogado

It was only a homicide (which may or not be a crime) because of the underlying health issues. Look at the video. The take-down hold did not restrict Garner's breathing or arterial blood flow. There is no way the police action would have resulted in the death of a healthy human being. The media, by describing Garner as a "chokehold victim", turned a lowlife into a martyr-- as the media did with Trayvon Martin and Eric Brown.

The autopsy report shows that neck and chest compression along with how Garner was on the sidewalk were the cause of his death. The health factors were contributing factors. It was ruled a HOMICIDE. Let the Federal grand jury sort it out.

[billethkid]

[QUOTE=janmcn;977296]Grand jury testimony is not a trial. There is no judge. Nobody knows what evidence was presented. It is all done in secret. From what has been reported in the press, no lesser charges were applied for such as manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Officer Pantaleo was not found not guilty. There is no double jeopardy is grand jury testimony. The federal prosecutor can take it to a grand jury as many times as it takes to get a trial.

The state prosecutor who presented this case should resign. If he couldn't get this case bound over for trial, he doesn't deserve the job.

Am I the only one who detects a guilty attitude during our law process that preumes one innocent until PROVEN GUILTY???????
Evolved from nothing more than hearsay, hired demonstrators and their allies the media!
So much for due process.....eh?

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by janmcn

To the best of my knowledge, teachers, doctors, mayors, councilwomen, senators, journalist, and Wolf Blitzer have not killed anybody recently.

That we know of and so that logic means what ever is being done is not illegal or questionable until one is caught.

Sounds like every person who serves the public should be wearing a body camera.

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

The autopsy report shows that neck and chest compression along with how Garner was on the sidewalk were the cause of his death. The health factors were contributing factors. It was ruled a HOMICIDE. Let the Federal grand jury sort it out.

Everybody would agree that it was a "homicide" in that it resulted from a sick criminal dying as a result of the force that was used, by the police, to arrest him when he resisted arrest. But there is no way that this homicide was a criminal act, as the state grand jury has determined. A federal grand jury is a waste of taxpayer money. Just like there was no violation by the police of state law, the police in no way violated any federal law.

[janmcn]

[quote=billethkid;977573]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Grand jury testimony is not a trial. There is no judge. Nobody knows what evidence was presented. It is all done in secret. From what has been reported in the press, no lesser charges were applied for such as manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Officer Pantaleo was not found not guilty. There is no double jeopardy is grand jury testimony. The federal prosecutor can take it to a grand jury as many times as it takes to get a trial.

The state prosecutor who presented this case should resign. If he couldn't get this case bound over for trial, he doesn't deserve the job.

Am I the only one who detects a guilty attitude during our law process that preumes one innocent until PROVEN GUILTY???????
Evolved from nothing more than hearsay, hired demonstrators and their allies the media!
So much for due process.....eh?

Doesn't the same "innocent until proven guilty" apply to Eric Gardner. Too many times, it seems, the police are taking on the role of judge and jury. Unless a policeman's life is in danger, which it very clearly was not in this case, there is no reason for this kind of treatment of a suspect. Garner, BTW, was suspected of selling loose cigarettes and not collecting taxes. What is the penalty for this crime?

Does anyone really think that the thousands of protesters from Maine to California are paid demonstrators? Yesterday there were protests all over Florida, from Jacksonville to Miami.

The District Attorney, in this case, never put lesser charges on the table for the grand jury to consider; such as manslaughter or negligent homicide. If he had, there might have been a different decision, and these demonstrations might have been avoided. It would seem that he has some explaining to do.

[manaboutown]

Garner died as a result of (1) his lifestyle choices, i.e., choosing to stuff enough calories down to weigh about 350 pounds and to become diabetic and develop heart issues, etc., and (2) his behavioral choices, (a) breaking the law and (b) resisting arrest. It is really as plain and simple as that.

[Cedwards38]

I don't think anyone is condemning all of law enforcement. In fact, everyone knows that the vast majority of law officers are good and fair at what they do. It seems to me that the protests are against the very small group of law officers who use bad judgement and excessive force, especially against African-American men.
Every profession has bad apples. Even law officers will admit that there are some bad apples. And when those bad apples take a life, it's cause for notice. I'm not in favor of burning down your town in protest, but I think there may be some reason to justify a reaction.

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Garner died as a result of (1) his lifestyle choices, i.e., choosing to stuff enough calories down to weigh about 350 pounds and to become diabetic and develop heart issues, etc., and (2) his behavioral choices, (a) breaking the law and (b) resisting arrest. It is really as plain and simple as that.

Those were all contributing factors - but the neck and chest compression put on him by the police and the positioning on the sidewalk were the DIRECT causes of his HOMICIDE. Read the medical examiner report.

Let the Federal grand jury decide if his civil rights were violated and if the policeman should be bound over for trial.

[Gary7]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Garner died as a result of (1) his lifestyle choices, i.e., choosing to stuff enough calories down to weigh about 350 pounds and to become diabetic and develop heart issues, etc., and (2) his behavioral choices, (a) breaking the law and (b) resisting arrest. It is really as plain and simple as that.

To make a statement like this is a discredit to all people who have weight issues and/or health issues.
There are many people who are overweight and/or have diabetes or heart issues due to genetics and side effects of prescription drugs.

[Gary7]

I do not understand how someone can watch the video of the arrest of Eric Garner and "know" that racism was NOT involved.
I am not saying it was or was not involved. I truly hope racism was not involved.
An outsider cannot know what was going on inside of head of Officer Daniel Pantaleo at the time the video was taken ... without further investigation.
Unfortunately, racism still exists in this country. We just do not know who is racist or not by watching a video similar to this one.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by Gary7

I do not understand how someone can watch the video of the arrest of Eric Garner and "know" that racism was NOT involved.
I am not saying it was or was not involved. I truly hope racism was not involved.
An outsider cannot know what was going on inside of head of Officer Daniel Pantaleo at the time the video was taken ... without further investigation.
Unfortunately, racism still exists in this country. We just do not know who is racist or not by watching a video similar to this one.

That is common sense thinking - unfortunately most of the thinking in these cases is based on emotion.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

I don't think anyone is condemning all of law enforcement. In fact, everyone knows that the vast majority of law officers are good and fair at what they do. It seems to me that the protests are against the very small group of law officers who use bad judgement and excessive force, especially against African-American men.
Every profession has bad apples. Even law officers will admit that there are some bad apples. And when those bad apples take a life, it's cause for notice. I'm not in favor of burning down your town in protest, but I think there may be some reason to justify a reaction.

Just to clarify ... does this mean you think Officer Wilson in Ferguson used "bad judgment and excessive force" when he shot Michael Brown when Brown was head down and running towards him, and after Brown had already scuffled for Wilson's weapon?

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

I don't think anyone is condemning all of law enforcement. In fact, everyone knows that the vast majority of law officers are good and fair at what they do. It seems to me that the protests are against the very small group of law officers who use bad judgement and excessive force, especially against African-American men.
Every profession has bad apples. Even law officers will admit that there are some bad apples. And when those bad apples take a life, it's cause for notice. I'm not in favor of burning down your town in protest, but I think there may be some reason to justify a reaction.

Please provide the basis for this statement.
Part of the problem today is that statements like this are put in print and unfortunately way to many are quick to accept anything that comes their way....especially if it fits their cause...and whether true or not (never seems to matter anymore).

Your statement is what Sharpton and Jackson and the media and the imported protesters would say because it is fuel for their following.

Hopefully your basis is other than the ones listed above.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

I don't think anyone is condemning all of law enforcement. In fact, everyone knows that the vast majority of law officers are good and fair at what they do. It seems to me that the protests are against the very small group of law officers who use bad judgement and excessive force, especially against African-American men.
Every profession has bad apples. Even law officers will admit that there are some bad apples. And when those bad apples take a life, it's cause for notice. I'm not in favor of burning down your town in protest, but I think there may be some reason to justify a reaction.

I will agree that there are bad cops.

I do not agree that everyone is not condemning them, as the cable networks, etc have continually been pounding them.

Have not seen this on the air,..


"NILES, Michigan — Police officers struggling to get through a chaotic scene in Michigan aboard an Amtrak train from Chicago were credited Saturday with preventing even more bloodshed after a man stabbed a conductor and three passengers.

“It was pretty incredible that they may have saved some lives,” passenger Tyler Vandermolen said."



Witness: Police may have saved lives in attack on Amtrak train from Chicago | Chicago Sun-Times

But I did see this....

"A tattooed gang of militants declared open season on the NYPD in the wake of the Eric Garner grand jury decision, according to a threat a police union verified Saturday.

Ten Black Guerrilla Family members are “preparing to shoot on duty police officers,” Sergeants Benevolent Association President Ed Mullins said.

The gang, formed in the 1960s in the California prison system, recently surfaced on the East Coast and Maryland, where members are at the heart of a drug-trafficking and corruption probe within the Baltimore prison system.


EXCLUSIVE: NYPD warned militant group plans to shoot cops - NY Daily News

What is happening now is NOT simply pointing out defective cites that need to be addressed.

It is a national thrashing of those charged with maintaining law and order.

I have met some bad cops, "bad" in my idea....Have not seen many citizens harmed unless acting criminally or in a situation that is suspiciously looking criminal, nor have seen many citizens harmed that do not have a "track record".

These allegations and thus far only verbal assaults have an agenda, and clearing out bad cops is NOT the agenda.

I also join BLT in asking for the credible proof of the assault on blacks so often shouted loudly with only words as evidence.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Gary7

I do not understand how someone can watch the video of the arrest of Eric Garner and "know" that racism was NOT involved.
I am not saying it was or was not involved. I truly hope racism was not involved.
An outsider cannot know what was going on inside of head of Officer Daniel Pantaleo at the time the video was taken ... without further investigation.
Unfortunately, racism still exists in this country. We just do not know who is racist or not by watching a video similar to this one.

I don't know Gary, what was on anybody's mind. BUT it stands out to me that the little puny skinny butt officer was looking at this great big beefy guy towering over him who was saying leave me alone and a bunch of stuff like that. His job was to arrest him. The man refused to be handcuffed. The man was not new to being arrested. What if it was YOUR job to arrest someone who is a LOT bigger than you? I guess you go with martial arts, or wrestling, or one of those things that you are taught in police school. The last thing I thought is the officer was thinking how much pigmentation was present in the man's skin. He was thinking how he could get him in handcuffs and arrested.

Never once did it occur to me that the little officer was trying to kill the big guy. NEVER once. Nor did the thought enter my mind that he was thinking about sociological problems. He may have had a little short man syndrome, a little attitude from THAT, but it never came to my mind that the police officer disliked this fellow due to his race and wanted to kill him. Never once.

I know that that man would be alive today if he had been taught what I had been taught. Do what you are told.Right or wrong the police officer is the boss in this situation.