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-   -   The unfair Hands up-don't shoot agenda against law enforcement. (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/unfair-hands-up-dont-shoot-agenda-against-law-enforcement-134228/)

Challenger 12-08-2014 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 977875)
"I did not see ... Brutal procedures"

A choke hold around the neck, having a cop kneel on your chest and another cop kneel on your head are not brutal procedures? The medical examiner report show this is what killed Garner and ruled it a HOMICIDE.

What do you suggest might have been the course of action for the police, when Mr Garner was (illegally) resisting arrest.

If you don't want the sale of single smokes on the street(violating federal tax laws) to be illegal , then contact your political representatives and have the law changed , Don' blame police for doing their job.

Be careful what you wish for, you may get your wish.

Sandtrap328 12-08-2014 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 977928)
They should have just let him go to do whatever he wanted to do????


Did you see that the one police officer came to just under Mr. Garner's chin? Mr. Garner seemed to be a very big man and he didn't want to follow directions at all. If you had been there, what exactly would you have directed people to do? AND which is it? Did he die from "Brutal Procedures" or from Asthma and heart difficulties?
No one intended to kill him.


Please read the medical examiner report. It states Garner died from having his neck and chest compressed. Even though it was not the intent of the four policemen to kill Garner, they did kill him. It was ruled a homicide. The police should answer for their actions. A Federal grand jury will decide if civil rights were violated.

Challenger 12-08-2014 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 977973)
Please read the medical examiner report. It states Garner died from having his neck and chest compressed. Even though it was not the intent of the four policemen to kill Garner, they did kill him. It was ruled a homicide. The police should answer for their actions. A Federal grand jury will decide if civil rights were violated.

According to Legal Dictionaries , homocide indicates that a killing was caused by another human. Homocide can be justified, excusable, accidental, etc. The word homocide does not in itself indicate a criminal act.

Sandtrap328 12-08-2014 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Challenger (Post 977991)
According to Legal Dictionaries , homocide indicates that a killing was caused by another human. Homocide can be justified, excusable, accidental, etc. The word homocide does not in itself indicate a criminal act.

First, the word is HOMICIDE. You are correct in saying it does not necessarily indicate a criminal act. That is to be determined at a trial. Since the state grand jury did not do their duty, it will be left up to a Federal grand jury to determine if Garner's civil rights were violated.

Rags123 12-08-2014 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 977994)
First, the word is HOMICIDE. You are correct in saying it does not necessarily indicate a criminal act. That is to be determined at a trial. Since the state grand jury did not do their duty, it will be left up to a Federal grand jury to determine if Garner's civil rights were violated.

In order to be indicted, there must be a violation of the LAW as our country is a nation of LAW.

What law was violated ?

Not, what police procedure (as is no choke hold) or anything else, but what law was violated ?

That is what is required to get an indictment !!!

Criticizing and panning the grand jury is inexcusable. They did their job. Who in the world is in a position to be so all knowing as to say that a grand jury did not do its job.

Rags123 12-08-2014 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 977928)
They should have just let him go to do whatever he wanted to do????


Did you see that the one police officer came to just under Mr. Garner's chin? Mr. Garner seemed to be a very big man and he didn't want to follow directions at all. If you had been there, what exactly would you have directed people to do? AND which is it? Did he die from "Brutal Procedures" or from Asthma and heart difficulties? I know that one cannot speak if one's airway is occluded and he kept saying, I can't breathe. WHO can we trust and turn to to guide us? Are we to let the scofflaws just do what they want? And only arrest people who won't resist? Perhaps we should only have very LARGE and TALL law enforcement officers who are black? NO, then there would still be cries of brutality.

If you don't want to be sat on and choked, do what you are told to do. He had been arrested 30 times! You would think that changing his ways would have been considered by him. He could have just found a job within the law.......

No one intended to kill him.

Why do some of us always feel sympathy for the law breakers and some of us feel sympathy for the law enforcers?

This not meant to be political but an attempt to respond to the question...

"Critics often view liberals as deeply authoritarian. Most liberals naturally object to this unflattering claim. Critics notwithstanding, liberals don't relish using the power of government. They don't have a raw preference for forcing everyone live their way. Instead, liberals maintain, they favor using the power of government to advance liberal aims because such policies have good overall consequences."

Liberal Authoritarianism, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

The federal government will bring a desired solution.

Rags123 12-08-2014 09:58 AM

My opinion is the cop MAY have violated police procedures. The fact that no choke hold is a police procedure should speak to the fact that the police do internal reviews on all physical restraint used and adjust. Are there bad cops with a chip on their shoulders...yes. I think that is inherent to that job.

All day faced with people who have zero respect for any law will do that to you.

I understand all the concern. What I do not understand is the media attempt to criminalize the police, and do it with such force and righteousness and with such omitting of facts. Demonizing the police in such situations will just cause MORE of what is being yelled we need. There will be MORE displays of smugness and ignoring of police commands and if we want law and order, we must stop the emphasizing of racial divide and perceived wrongs by authority.

There are already in place methods and ways to deal with all the concerns expressed but we, as society, do not feel we can wait to insure our LAWS reflect what we want.....it is more powerful but less self rewarding to work within our existing system to right wrongs. As long as we continue down the media induced hysteria, we will have more and more of these instances, not less. Seems it gives you "face time" and actually getting to work on issues does not.

graciegirl 12-08-2014 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 977994)
First, the word is HOMICIDE. You are correct in saying it does not necessarily indicate a criminal act. That is to be determined at a trial. Since the state grand jury did not do their duty, it will be left up to a Federal grand jury to determine if Garner's civil rights were violated.


I am not on the same page here. I think the Attorney General is trying to stir the racial pot.

janmcn 12-08-2014 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 977973)
Please read the medical examiner report. It states Garner died from having his neck and chest compressed. Even though it was not the intent of the four policemen to kill Garner, they did kill him. It was ruled a homicide. The police should answer for their actions. A Federal grand jury will decide if civil rights were violated.


Grand Jury Decides Not To Indict Cop In Eric Garner Chokehold Case « CBS New York

If the policemen involved in this incident did nothing wrong, why were the four police officers (other than Pantaleo) given immunity when they testified before the grand jury? Isn't immunity something given to guilty parties in exchange for their testimony?

All of the policemen involved in this incident are being investigated by the NYPD, not just Pantaleo.

billethkid 12-08-2014 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 977994)
First, the word is HOMICIDE. You are correct in saying it does not necessarily indicate a criminal act. That is to be determined at a trial. Since the state grand jury did not do their duty, it will be left up to a Federal grand jury to determine if Garner's civil rights were violated.

Because the verdict or decision was not in line with ones beliefs = not doing their duty?!?!?!?

Is there at least a possibility that they have privy to a lot more information and facts in the case than you or the general public have? One hell of a lot more than the rioters, the media and the Sharpton/Holder types!

AND what makes you or anybody else think the federal review will neccessarily disagree with the decision/ruling. Once again setting the basis for measurement = the correct one as long as it agrees with your position.

Not really what the due process of law was formulated on.

JB in TV 12-08-2014 12:00 PM

EXCELLENT response, BTK.

Thanks!

Sandtrap328 12-08-2014 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 978070)
I am not on the same page here. I think the Attorney General is trying to stir the racial pot.

This is a great example of why TOTV is an excellent forum - as long as ideas are posted with respect to the others - and this thread shows it does happen!

We have opposite viewpoints but everyone remains respectful of others!

shcisamax 12-08-2014 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 975815)
I saw a photo online yesterday of one of the women protestors in Ferguson holding up a sign saying; (you may not believe this but it's true)

"NO MOTHER SHOULD HAVE TO WORRY THAT EVERY TIME HER SON HOLDS UP A STORE HE WILL BE SHOT"

That pretty much explains the mentality of these people that are protesting. They have been completely brainwashed by some of the special interest groups that when a black kid is shot, it's never justified.

It's really unfortunate that people actually believe someone would write that. THE SIGN WAS PHOTOSHOPPED. It originally said, No mother should have to worry that every time her son goes out he will be shot.

Rags123 12-08-2014 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janmcn (Post 978081)
Grand Jury Decides Not To Indict Cop In Eric Garner Chokehold Case « CBS New York

If the policemen involved in this incident did nothing wrong, why were the four police officers (other than Pantaleo) given immunity when they testified before the grand jury? Isn't immunity something given to guilty parties in exchange for their testimony?

All of the policemen involved in this incident are being investigated by the NYPD, not just Pantaleo.

I just do not understand the hanging of this grand jury. WHAT LAW DIE HE BREAK ???

Am I saying he was not in the wrong....absolutely not. BUT that grand jury that you and others are quickly debasing on here had to decide if a law was broken. I am asking again...WHAT LAW WAS BROKEN !

If you broke police policy he will be dealt with.....if he violated federal law, he will be dealt with, but that is not what this grand jury was looking at,yet on here they are being attacked for not doing their job

graciegirl 12-08-2014 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shcisamax (Post 978131)
It's really unfortunate that people actually believe someone would write that. THE SIGN WAS PHOTOSHOPPED. It originally said, No mother should have to worry that every time her son goes out he will be shot.

This is the third time that error has been pointed out on this thread. Dr. Boogie has apologized for his error.


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