[Pairadocs]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Who knows? Hard to discuss this topic without unveiling the dreaded "P" word.

But "does demoralizing the American citizen ever create a positive growth experience for the future of this country"? In a weird way, I think yes. History shows this to us. The stock market crash followed by the Great Depression plunged a prosperous nation into a decade-long period of high unemployment, soup kitchens, and rampant homelessness, migrations of people to hoped-for greener pastures not seen since the great push westward of the 19th century. But we came out of it better. We knew the people who accomplished it. They were our mothers and fathers--still, in some rare cases, us. Immediately following the depression, they were the soldiers, sailors and airmen who fought a two-front war on opposite ends of the globe. The won--not so much because of military acumen or exception bravery, but because of the industries back home that employed their wives and mothers.

They were "The Greatest Generation".

I was privileged to interview my mother shortly before she died, about life in that time. What I knew about the Great Depression and WW2 I learned from history books. Dad fought in the Pacific theater (won the Bronze Star for his part in the liberation of the Santo Tomas prison in Manila) but he never much talked about it. Mostly to say that He acquired a great deal of respect for the Japanese during his tenure there as part of the army of occupation. He also carried a couple of bills of "occupation money" that he showed us. But otherwise--no. Mom the same. It was characteristic of that generation. But the stuff I learned from Mom was priceless. She talked about how, during the height of the depression, people came together. People doing laundry for one another, often walking more than a mile with a full basket as gasoline was saved only for important tasks, such a plowing or rare trips for supplies. My uncle--my namesake, actually--died at age 8 of rheumatic fever during that time. His family buried him in an unmarked grave as there was no money for anything resembling a modern funeral; certainly none for a headstone. His father--my grandfather--dug his son's grave.

Fast-forward to America 2022. Our worries are largely how inflation will affect our stockpile of money, or how the rollercoaster economy is going to impact our investments. The generations that came after us, in many cases, expect the government to either help pay or forgive the student loans that they incurred going to school for the relatively lucrative job they now have, and in too many cases bemoan the fact that they're not being paid what THEY think they're worth. Our dreams are of grandiose visions of how we can save the planet. Or whether or not spending the money to robotically explore the solar system is justified. Or which EV is best. In short, we argue and bicker about things that simply had no impact at all on the lives of The Greatest Generation. THEIR concern was having enough to eat. Or a place to sleep. Or winning a war. I often wonder just what that generation would think, if they had a glimpse into OUR reality and compared it to theirs. I'm afraid they'd see what we have and are, as heaven, compared to their reality.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” This quote by author G. Michael Hopf says it perfectly, and our history proves it. The best steel is tempered in fire, after all. No one knows how long the current ills will last--or comparatively, if they're even ills at all--but I have no doubt that, in the end, we'll come out on the other side better than when we went into it. It is the American way, after all.

Don't remember the first time I read a Hopf book, probably getting some sun on a beach, maybe around 2016-17, and when i read that passage i whipped out my phone and made a note of it... kind of up there with eternal truths isn't it !

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I can basically agree with that. Well stated. Economics 101 was merely a relatively easy course designed as an introduction only.

Finance goes over compound interest on saving for future value
buying a latte daily versus saving daily, impulsive buying can sink future buying
saving for a house versus buying a latte daily, most benefit analysis
interest payments and cost for borrowing total payments over lifetime
refinancing traps due to interest amortization (how the bank makes money on you!)
credit card financing versus cash
cash flow putting all expenses and income onto the same page.
Renting/leasing versus buying cash flow analysis
Risk analysis for identifying a better investment from a poorer investment
cars, houses, hot stock versus long term stocks
sweat equity versus buying new,
depreciation on a two year old car versus buying new.

Portfolio theory for not putting all your eggs in one basket, index versus individual stock
Buy low Sell high is independent from taxes, not because of taxes.

Gambling odds, gamblers fallacy, with risk of ruin calculations

These economic decisions can be taught which can overcome parentally learned rules of thumb from human biases.

good luck

[Pairadocs]

sp

Originally Posted by Ptmckiou

1. Supply Inflation - Since 90% of our supplies are manufactured by China, and they have been shutting thr country down every time someone gets COVID the past several years, it shuts down manufacturing and shipping, This causes months of delays, so IF there are still Widget A in stock in the USA, the price climbs because there are few of them and no guarantee of when we will bet more. Solution…bring manufacturing back to USA p, BUT not so fast. Workers in in China make A lot less than workers in USA, so that would send the prices of our products even more. No easy solution.

2. When FEDs raise interest rates, then when banks loan money it costs the consumer more for that product (aka mortgages, etc). Thereby, consumers stop purchasing those products and the prices then have to drop to compete with the shrinking group of purchasers that can still afford to purchase. It slows down the economic engine, so prices have to come down to try an attract buyers that have been pushed out of the market. It’s a fine line…reduce consumer spending without pushing the econ9my into a recession. The number to watch is unemployment. There has never been a recession with low unemployment. People are working, so we aren’t in a recession. If unemployment goes from 3% to 5%: then long term hurt on the horizon. So farm things are looking very good…gas is down, and some other prices down. It’s working.

3. Take responsibility for yourself. No one forced anyone to take drugs. Not even your doctor. Several times I’ve had doctors try to prescribe a pill and I say, “No” and I ask the alternative. Like too high of blood pressure, or glucose….losing weight helped me being the numbers back to normal. If a person is abusing a pill, it’s the person taking the pills fault. No one else. Take response your actions. Also, read up on stuff you put in your mouth. Read articles from the Mayo or Cleveland clinic, or WebMD about the product or issue. Educate yourself on alternatives. It’s your body, and YOUR responsibility what you ingest into it. BTW…”happiness” is a choice. Either you see the glass half-full, or you see the glass half-empty. Same two people looking at the exact same glass, and see something different. It’s not the glass fault….it’s you perspective. Change your perspective (turn lemons into lemonade in your head) and you’ll change your life.

I agree, personal responsibility is the key, but I acknowledge that I have very well educated friends who have a some what "blind spot" when it comes to what their doctor tells them to take. We ARE blessed to have many critically necessary medicines, but it is rather unsettling to hear the never ending TV ads for medications for "diseases" you have never heard of in your life, and most seem to be more "conditions" than diseases, but I split hairs there I fear. It is amazing to have friends, seemingly in good health and well educated, arrive for a visit with a literally case of legally prescribed drugs from their doctor. Have a cousin who actually asked for alternatives for lowering her moderate PB elevation. Her doctor told her nothing has been firmly established to work, that lowing sodium intake is not the answer, and added that behavioral changes are not a solution "because most patients will make them for approximately two weeks before going back to their normal diet and exercise pattern". He ended up giving her 3 separate medications for a MODERATE elevation ! She never filled them and began a search for alternatives. To try to write down the number of ads for prescription medicines in one day on all networks would be impossible ! My personal opinion is it's inappropriate to ADVERTISE PRESCRIPTION MEDICINES like cough drops, aspirin, and topical s for scratches and cuts ! Seems inappropriate and out of place, and since they require prescriptions, the ads always say "CALL YOUR DOCTOR NOW' and ask for _____ ! In no way am I not grateful for the many medications that have given members of my own family with certain conditions years of additional life, it is the kind of reckless abandon with which many medications are just routinely prescribed. When I do talk about my reserves in this area, I've had friends look at me and say "oh, you're one of THOSE, I had no idea and we've been friends a long time now". I just explain I am not "one of those" at all, I just believe caution should be a normal part of a decision, and personal responsibility HAS to be an element !

[tuccillo]

I am not sure what your point. My post was about providing context. Try to stay on point, if possible.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

It is pretty hard to CONTROL the national debt when population increases are out of CONTROL.
........Also, as ONE simple example of where government costs have increased is the problem caused by all the FIRES out west. 7 out of the last 8 years have had RECORD HEAT. Ask yourself, what CAUSED that? It is a problem that is basically being ignored at this time, but it won't go away - and it cost lives every year and it INCREASES costs to state and Federal governments. Killer hurricane IAN has cost and will cost Floridians and the
Federal government MANY billions of dollars. Also, homeowners insurance will rise and is now the highest in the US. That problem was ignored in the US and has not been worked on for the last 30 years. Europe has worked on that problem. Also, Europe and Australia have more efficient health care which allows their societies to be more work efficient and worry less - that leads to improved GNP which allows those countries to take IN more tax money which lowers their National debt.

These are just a few examples of how America could better CONTROL its national debt. And I have not even mentioned tax brackets and percentages.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Pairadocs

sp

I agree, personal responsibility is the key, but I acknowledge that I have very well educated friends who have a some what "blind spot" when it comes to what their doctor tells them to take. We ARE blessed to have many critically necessary medicines, but it is rather unsettling to hear the never ending TV ads for medications for "diseases" you have never heard of in your life, and most seem to be more "conditions" than diseases, but I split hairs there I fear. It is amazing to have friends, seemingly in good health and well educated, arrive for a visit with a literally case of legally prescribed drugs from their doctor. Have a cousin who actually asked for alternatives for lowering her moderate PB elevation. Her doctor told her nothing has been firmly established to work, that lowing sodium intake is not the answer, and added that behavioral changes are not a solution "because most patients will make them for approximately two weeks before going back to their normal diet and exercise pattern". He ended up giving her 3 separate medications for a MODERATE elevation ! She never filled them and began a search for alternatives. To try to write down the number of ads for prescription medicines in one day on all networks would be impossible ! My personal opinion is it's inappropriate to ADVERTISE PRESCRIPTION MEDICINES like cough drops, aspirin, and topical s for scratches and cuts ! Seems inappropriate and out of place, and since they require prescriptions, the ads always say "CALL YOUR DOCTOR NOW' and ask for _____ ! In no way am I not grateful for the many medications that have given members of my own family with certain conditions years of additional life, it is the kind of reckless abandon with which many medications are just routinely prescribed. When I do talk about my reserves in this area, I've had friends look at me and say "oh, you're one of THOSE, I had no idea and we've been friends a long time now". I just explain I am not "one of those" at all, I just believe caution should be a normal part of a decision, and personal responsibility HAS to be an element !

I also do NOT believe that the Pharmaceutical Industry should advertise on television. They should ONLY advertise in medical journals.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

I am not sure what your point. My post was about providing context. Try to stay on point, if possible.

Your post stated that for 2022 so far the Federal government has spent $6.3T and collected $4.9T. That would INCREASE the National debt. I merely went with your point and gave some of my personal suggestions as to ways to control the national debt. Everyone IS concerned about the national debt and most everyone has suggestions about how to control it and when - in what part of an economic cycle is it more important to control?

[tuccillo]

Obviously. I thought that part of my post was pretty clear. You also had some unrelated nonsense about population and weather events. Focus.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Your post stated that for 2022 so far the Federal government has spent $6.3T and collected $4.9T. That would INCREASE the National debt. I merely went with your point and gave some of my personal suggestions as to ways to control the national debt. Everyone IS concerned about the national debt and most everyone has suggestions about how to control it and when - in what part of an economic cycle is it more important to control?

[justjim]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

I get that, but unfortunately the people that represent us have sold out to special interests. Do you get that?

Do you think our tax monies are spent wisely?

Special interests supply much of the money to the candidates and their party as the costs for campaigns continue to grow completely out of hand. Unfortunately that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. The same can be said for any movement toward term limits for Legislators. We can always do better in the way taxpayer money is spent.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by justjim

Special interests supply much of the money to the candidates and their party as the costs for campaigns continue to grow completely out of hand. Unfortunately that is unlikely to change anytime in the near future. The same can be said for any movement toward term limits for Legislators. We can always do better in the way taxpayer money is spent.

Warren Buffet had it right. If the govt budget is in a deficit when the economy was doing well all sitting legislators would be forbidden from running for reelection.

He estimated the budget would be in balance within about 15 minutes.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

Why don't you tell the whole story? The deficit for FY 2021 was $2.8T. The deficit for FY 2022 was $1.4T. So, instead of spending $2.8T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2021, the government only spent $1.4T more than the amount of tax revenue in FY 2022. Yes, I guess that is a $1.4T reduction in the deficit. The government only collected $4.9T in taxes for FY 2022 and they spent $6.3T. Doesn't sound so great anymore, does it? Numbers are meaningless without context.

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Covid was typical in that in the US there was a HUGE time delay before solutions were implemented. In the free world, there were countries that reacted sooner than the US. However, the US reacted significantly better than Russia and China.

What??? Sorry, but all of that is so far from reality, that my jaw just dropped to the floor...

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

What loss of revenue? Just more spending.

Federal tax receipts see biggest one-year jump since 1977 despite pandemic | The Hill

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

What??? Sorry, but all of that is so far from reality, that my jaw just dropped to the floor...

I had a good laugh on that one too, the misinformation is ridiculous.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Maybe the loss of revenue was tax cuts, hmmmm!

Actually, pretty much every time they cut taxes, tax revenue goes up...

In Actual Dollars, Tax Cuts Boost Revenue Time After Time - Discourse

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I had a good laugh on that one too, the misinformation is ridiculous.

The other post was even worse, but I'd probably get a vacation if I responded...