[karostay]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Just sink one. I'm sure the rest will stay away

Like saying Lays potato chips goes
Bet ya can't sink just one

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by PNaughton

I don't think the present CIC likes to be poked.

Well I know one that like to poke!

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by blueash

Let me review the history of that event.

"On January 12, 2016, two United States Navy riverine command boats were seized by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Navy after they entered Iranian territorial waters near Iran's Farsi Island in the Persian Gulf. Initially, the U.S. military claimed the sailors inadvertently entered Iranian waters owing to mechanical failure, but it was later reported that they entered Iranian waters because of navigational errors.[3] The U.S. secretary of state, John Kerry, called the Iranian foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif within five minutes. His call was followed by multiple other phone calls between the two ministers. The sailors had a brief verbal exchange with the Iranian military and were released, unharmed, 15 hours later. "

To summary, our ship illegally entered the territorial water of Iran. The ship was captured and within a few hours the sailors were released. And you call that feckless? What should we have done, other than maybe stayed out of their waters. The Iranian Navy if it followed the just issued orders from our side, would have sunk our ships and all souls lost. What country acted with restraint in this story? Did diplomacy show its value? Some people only see what they want to see and disregard the rest.

Before I respond, I want to ask you a question.

Does the photo of American military men on their knees, being deliberately humiliated, bother or anger you as a loyal citizen?


...

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by blueash

Let me review the history of that event.

"On January 12, 2016, two United States Navy riverine command boats were seized by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Navy after they entered Iranian territorial waters near Iran's Farsi Island in the Persian Gulf. Initially, the U.S. military claimed the sailors inadvertently entered Iranian waters owing to mechanical failure, but it was later reported that they entered Iranian waters because of navigational errors.[3] The U.S. secretary of state, John Kerry, called the Iranian foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif within five minutes. His call was followed by multiple other phone calls between the two ministers. The sailors had a brief verbal exchange with the Iranian military and were released, unharmed, 15 hours later. "

To summary, our ship illegally entered the territorial water of Iran. The ship was captured and within a few hours the sailors were released. And you call that feckless? What should we have done, other than maybe stayed out of their waters. The Iranian Navy if it followed the just issued orders from our side, would have sunk our ships and all souls lost. What country acted with restraint in this story? Did diplomacy show its value? Some people only see what they want to see and disregard the rest.

Maybe multi-billion dollar release of assets had something to do with it? You know the billions in January that got transferred?

[rustyp]

Help me - not being negative. These Iranian boats are but a tinker toy against our ships which they are harassing. Assuming we are in international waters why wouldn't the orders be stay your course, do not deviate, do not fire unless fired upon ? Doesn't that send a better message of don't mess with us than putting us in the aggressor position ? Surely they will deviate before collision unless they are on a comacazie mission. In which case we gain more knowledge about reality Vs bluff. If we collide with them I hope we would take no more than a dent in the hull. I'm getting older now but I seem to remember this movie.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

Before I respond, I want to ask you a question.

Does the photo of American military men on their knees, being deliberately humiliated, bother or anger you as a loyal citizen?


...

I'm looking at the photo. I don't see anyone being humiliated. I don't see anyone on their knees [not that such would = humiliation]. I see a group of Americans who crossed into Iranian water, which we admit, being treated humanely but cautiously. I am not bothered by the treatment they received. I am bothered by the conduct they exhibited in allowing their craft to go where it was not allowed to go. "navigational errors" means they made a mistake. And they got away with it because the Iranians did not have a hot trigger finger.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Help me - not being negative. These Iranian boats are but a tinker toy against our ships which they are harassing. Assuming we are in international waters why wouldn't the orders be stay your course, do not deviate, do not fire unless fired upon ? Doesn't that send a better message of don't mess with us than putting us in the aggressor position ? Surely they will deviate before collision unless they are on a comacazie mission. In which case we gain more knowledge about reality Vs bluff. If we collide with them I hope we would take no more than a dent in the hull. I'm getting older now but I seem to remember this movie.

Why wait to be fired upon? If they have the capability to fire on a Navy ship and cause damage or death, the threat should be removed before they fire.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Maybe multi-billion dollar release of assets had something to do with it? You know the billions in January that got transferred?

The return of Iranian assets was negotiated as part of the nuclear stand down deal which was finalized in the summer of 2015 with the money to be released in Jan 2016. It was coming to Iran unless we were going to abrogate our pledge and break our word as specified in the agreement which the US and many other countries signed. So Iran was getting that money back. They didn't release our lost sailors because they got something in return. They weren't hostages, they weren't bargained. They were humanely treated and humanely released. You and I do not see the same things looking at the same picture.

I thought the talking point was supposed to be that the US taxpayers "paid" Iran to sign the agreement. At least you got it right that we didn't pay them anything. We gave them their own money that we had been holding in sanction and refunded a weapons payment we never delivered to them, when they agreed for 15 years to stop enriching uranium, destroy their stockpile, destroy their advanced centrifuges and submit to international inspections.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by blueash

I'm looking at the photo. I don't see anyone being humiliated. I don't see anyone on their knees [not that such would = humiliation]. I see a group of Americans who crossed into Iranian water, which we admit, being treated humanely but cautiously. I am not bothered by the treatment they received. I am bothered by the conduct they exhibited in allowing their craft to go where it was not allowed to go. "navigational errors" means they made a mistake. And they got away with it because the Iranians did not have a hot trigger finger.

Look a little closer. To me, they sure appear to be on their knees.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by vilger

An attempt to raise the price of oil to save the shale industry.

Oh please!!

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Why wait to be fired upon? If they have the capability to fire on a Navy ship and cause damage or death, the threat should be removed before they fire.

Yes I understand what you are saying but isn't that what they are trying to do?
Provoke us to the point we are the aggressor? I.E. somehow make us look like the bad guys. If we are in international waters and not violating any maritime agreements /laws/ protocol why else would they try this maneuver? I can only imagine the fire power on our ships would be enough one could not even find their pieces afterwards. Surely they can't be that naive.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Help me - not being negative. These Iranian boats are but a tinker toy against our ships which they are harassing. Assuming we are in international waters why wouldn't the orders be stay your course, do not deviate, do not fire unless fired upon ? Doesn't that send a better message of don't mess with us than putting us in the aggressor position ? Surely they will deviate before collision unless they are on a comacazie mission. In which case we gain more knowledge about reality Vs bluff. If we collide with them I hope we would take no more than a dent in the hull. I'm getting older now but I seem to remember this movie.

Do you remember back in 2000 the USS Cole a guided missile destroyer damaged by a small boat similar to these loaded with explosives? 17 sailors killed and 39 injured.

[retiredguy123]

I would just say that, if the Navy ship is in danger, and fires on the Iranian boat, then we are not the aggressor. If someone thinks we "look" like bad guys, then I'm okay with it.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by blueash

I'm looking at the photo. I don't see anyone being humiliated. I don't see anyone on their knees [not that such would = humiliation]. I see a group of Americans who crossed into Iranian water, which we admit, being treated humanely but cautiously. I am not bothered by the treatment they received. I am bothered by the conduct they exhibited in allowing their craft to go where it was not allowed to go. "navigational errors" means they made a mistake. And they got away with it because the Iranians did not have a hot trigger finger.

That's what I thought and therein lays the problem ... enough said.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Do you remember back in 2000 the USS Cole a guided missile destroyer damaged by a small boat similar to these loaded with explosives? 17 sailors killed and 39 injured.

I can't remember but wasn't that planted explosives on our ship at dock. If these boats wanted to fire a missile while both sides were underway why didn't they? Because their motive is to demonstrate we are the aggressor. I would have a totally different opinion if this were off our coast.