Talk of The Villages Florida - Vietnam vs Florida

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- The Villages, Florida, Non Villages Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/)

- - Vietnam vs Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/vietnam-vs-florida-324255/)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjameson (Post 2006395)

Don't know what the number of votes has to do with your analogy. How about the number of deaths from the flu from 2011-2020 amounting to approximately 500,000 Americans according to the CDC? No masks were ever required or even discussed. No vaccination craze.

That's because any such comparisons are prohibited in this most politically charged society.

Oh wait! Maybe because Americans were never FEARFUL of the flu despite the fact that it kills so many every year.

500,000 dead from the flu in 9 years, 650,000+ dead in 1.7 months. Mmmmm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin (Post 2006014)

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

Um.....Ok Ok Ok, no sense for me to become contentions....."The grass IS blue."

Quote:

Originally Posted by butlerperkins@gmail.com (Post 2006336)

2021 0919 Sunday �� 08:31
My world has changed more than at any time in my life, because I have yet to get a shot(s). Stop here, at these words, and imagine what your life would be like had you not received the shot(s).

<pause>

It is tough listening to the government and the press and ordinary citizenry chastise and curse at you for not being one of those to get the treatment — every day. It hurts, at times.

But
Excuse me for taking my pardon now, I have a dance to attend in Pennsylvania. My lady and I will mask the entire time, avoid close contact with other dancers (though they will come to us to welcome us and introduce themselves).

If asked, I will say that I am not “jabbed”.

The toughest part is dancing Viennese Waltz, or Quickstep, or Samba (yes, the dance Samba) or Jive with a filtered mask on! My heart rate will soar.

At the end of the dance, I will be so thankful to drive home, shower, sleep and awaken to tomorrow’s headlines.

I will also be thankful to open ToTV and read your posts.

Thanks for sharing. I hope that you stay safe (and enjoy the dance).
I got the shot as soon as I could (Janssen) [on Good Friday], no side effects. I continued to stay quarantined for 2 weeks (social distance); but since then I've resumed a "new" (ab)normal routine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2006765)

I am NOT believing the logic leading to that conclusion. There may be several other factors. But, one important factor is TIME - the beginning time of 1st spike. The states around NY state broke early due to NYC as a hub and not having an EARLY ban on travel from China or other problem countries. So, throw those states out for purposes of predicting future deaths per 100,000. Then, Florida is better compared to Louisianna, Mississippi, and the other late surging states. Also, as to TIMING, DELTA came on later and IS a big factor to consider. It IS likely that Florida will work its way HIGHER on that list!

The original discussion was to address the implication by the OP that "a personal choice agenda" was behind the number of deaths in Florida. The data presented was also not a prediction of future deaths, but the current rate of death related to Covid.

Where ever the "first spike" occurred, it has been normalized in the death rate data since the first spike occurred over 12 months ago. You don't get to just throw out data that is inconvenient to a narrative as originally suggested in the response above.

Some (not all) southern states recently experienced a spike with the delta variant and the number of cases are now dropping, but the number of deaths from the delta variant are already showing in the data. For example, Florida was the state ranked 20th in death rate last week, but as of 2 days ago it has moved up to 10th. Other states, including the northeast will start to see the number of cases increase as they begin dealing with the delta variant. The northeast has not yet seen the crest, but more like waves per CNBC report on 9/3/21. So then, even with Florida moving up10 spots due to the delta surge that the northeast has not yet experienced, NY currently still ranks as the 4th highest in the country.

Are there other factors that can be included in the death rates for Covid? Absolutely.
So what factors have contributed to the death rates? How did protecting seniors in nursing homes and first providing inoculations to people 65 and older as well as those with co-morbidity issues impact the death rate? How did the placing of Covid infected patients into nursing homes impact the death rate? How does the transfer of non-vaccinated and Covid tested positive people to different areas of the country impact the death rate in those states? I am well aware that there are other factors beyond these such as each seasonal surges that may occur at different times of the year in different states.

So no, there are no simple answers, but making unsubstantiated generalized claims has, I believe, once again been proven perilous. Let's continue to collect and analyze the data (be careful of extrapolating based upon one or two data points) and not run from the data.

Lastly, unfortunately science and facts take a backdoor when it doesn't agree with the desired narrative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe (Post 2006518)

Nature Microbiology,
We shouldn’t worry when a virus mutates during disease outbreaks by Nathan D. Grubaugh, Mary E. Petrone & Edward C. Holmes Published Feb. 2020

"Mutation. The word naturally conjures fears of unexpected and freakish changes. Ill-informed discussions of mutations thrive during virus outbreaks, including the ongoing spread of SARS-CoV-2. In reality, mutations are a natural part of the virus life cycle and rarely impact outbreaks dramatically."

Later in the article: "Mutations can also make a virus either more or less virulent. A common idea is that virulence will only change — either upwards or downwards — if it increases the transmission rate of the virus, which effectively means an increase in the number of virus ‘offspring’. However, high virulence may (although by no means always) reduce transmissibility if the host is too sick to expose others."

So, if you have cold/flu like symptoms, instead of wearing a mask, why not stay home until you feel better and become asymptomatic? Wouldn't this one step help prevent the spread? If you have to go out to the store to get essentials while ill, wearing a mask will help prevent the gross droplets from being transmitted should you cough or sneeze, but it doesn't prevent all virus particles from filtering through the commonly used masks. There is no data that shows that wearing the commonly used masks PREVENT the transmission of Covid (or any other virus for that matter), but it can help slow the spread when combined with other preventative measures (Mayo Clinic). And if in consultation with your doctor it is determined that you should wear a mask and when/where to do so, then by all means wear one.

Covid is NOT going away-much like the flu and the common cold, we do need to understand it more and learn to live with it.

I am curious as to why there is no discussion on therapeutics by "the powers that be"? The only coverage on therapeutics (which would help in recovery from Covid) I have heard is to deride the potential options. Curious since some of these options have been used medically in humans for years and may turn out to be effective in post Covid treatment-time will tell. Ivermectin for one resulted in a Nobel Peace Prize in 2015 for its' use discovery in the treatment of infectious diseases. However, the "talking heads" in the media reference Ivermectin as a drug for horses not humans and mocked its use in Covid treatment, yet these same talking heads are telling people to "get the jab" of essentially an experimental vaccine (there are of course no multi-year studies on the effectiveness or long term side effects of the vaccine). I am by no means suggesting that people shouldn't get the vaccine, but that they should consult with their doctor and determine an appropriate treatment plan versus listening to an often wrong panel of "talking heads."

I like the photo of your doggies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Hunter (Post 2006411)

You have tried to link together a lot of irrelevant data. That's not how the scientific method works.

a different kind of science - like flying a kite in a lightning storm...

Two neighbors with COVID, few symptoms, none severe. My sister had COVID last year, she was sick for three months, and now has tons of antibodies and gets tested regularly, rather than vaccinate since she has a blood clotting disorder and doesn't qualify for the vaccines.

A friend just told me his younger brother was intubated today, and it doesn't look good for him. My friend is only in his 30's, his brother I believe is just around 30. I don't know if his brother was vaccinated or not, but I do know they live in an area of the country where a vast majority of people are _not_ vaccinated. If the majority had been, perhaps his brother wouldn't have contracted it in the first place.

Ok, let’s say I’m an alcoholic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin (Post 2006139)

Do you have any stats that show people died with COVID (whatever that means) as opposed to died from COVID?

Ok, let’s say I’m an alcoholic.
Ok, your an alcoholic.

Now let’s say I quit drinking entirely 10 years ago.

Now, let’s say I went to the doctor and was told I have liver disease. BAD liver disease.

On the way home I die of a massive heart attack. Turns out I had diabetes too.

What did I die of? Heart attack? Diabetes? Liver disease? Alcoholism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuggmeister (Post 2006815)

That’s too easy…
Covid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin (Post 2006786)

500,000 dead from the flu in 9 years, 650,000+ dead in 1.7 months. Mmmmm.

You're ASSuming that all 650K died FROM Covid and not simply WITH Covid...

From the CDC (2020 Deaths)

"Approximately 375,000 deaths during 2020 were attributed to COVID-19 on death certificates reported to CDC (1). Concerns have been raised that some deaths are being improperly attributed to COVID-19 (2). Analysis of International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) diagnoses on official death certificates might provide an expedient and efficient method to demonstrate whether reported COVID-19 deaths are being overestimated. CDC assessed documentation of diagnoses co-occurring with an ICD-10 code for COVID-19 (U07.1) on U.S. death certificates from 2020 that had been reported to CDC as of February 22, 2021. Among 378,048 death certificates listing U07.1, a total of 357,133 (94.5%) had at least one other ICD-10 code; 20,915 (5.5%) had only U07.1. Overall, 97.3% of 357,133 death certificates with at least one other diagnosis (91.9% of all 378,048 death certificates) were noted to have a co-occurring diagnosis that was a plausible chain-of-event condition (e.g., pneumonia or respiratory failure), a significant contributing condition (e.g., hypertension or diabetes), or both. Overall, 70%–80% of death certificates had both a chain-of-event condition and a significant contributing condition or a chain-of-event condition only; this was noted for adults aged 18–84 years, both males and females, persons of all races and ethnicities, those who died in inpatient and outpatient or emergency department settings, and those whose manner of death was listed as natural. "

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2006935)

You're ASSuming that all 650K died FROM Covid and not simply WITH Covid...

Exactly. Was reading an article yesterday about Colorado COVID numbers being skewed. A murder suicide there was reported as two COVID deaths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuggmeister (Post 2006815)

Not wearing a seatbelt……..

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin (Post 2006786)

500,000 dead from the flu in 9 years, 650,000+ dead in 1.7 months. Mmmmm.

How long was the VN conflict? So, let’s not use that comparison.