[roob1]

In most districts, individually administered intelligence measures for classroom placement are given by those trained in individual assessment at a graduate level. Training is comprehensive and beyond what a classroom teacher obtains. Classroom placement meaning placement outside of regular education.

Perhaps you are referring to the old, group administered IQ tests given in the 50's and 60's that may have been used for grouping students by ability.

Originally Posted by fishon

Relying on I.Q. scores for classroom placement has always been a crapshoot.
The test is most often given and scored by schoolteachers like it was an everyday school quiz.
Without proper instructions before the test and a professional interview after the test, the results should be considered suspect.
If you don't understand the algorithm you shouldn't evaluate the score.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by roob1

In most districts, individually administered intelligence measures for classroom placement are given by those trained in individual assessment at a graduate level. Training is comprehensive and beyond what a classroom teacher obtains. Classroom placement meaning placement outside of regular education.

Perhaps you are referring to the old, group administered IQ tests given in the 50's and 60's that may have been used for grouping students by ability.

I agree. I have never heard of an I.Q. test administered by a classroom teacher.

On another note, a good vocabulary is not a dependable way to score intelligence. People who have Williams Syndrome have amazing vocabulary skills in the face of cognitive deficit. They also are able to read non verbal body language better than the rest of us. Dr. Ursula Bellugi, director of Cognitive Development at the Salk Institute studied this and our family was part of the study. Salk scientists also noted that an area at the base of the brain that controls sociality and interaction with others was bigger in people with Williams Syndrome and smaller in people with Autism. People who have Williams Syndrome are charmingly social.

[retiredguy123]

Charmingly social? Whatever Williams Syndrome is, I'm confident that I don't have it.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Charmingly social? Whatever Williams Syndrome is, I'm confident that I don't have it.

Now I really like that!

[fishon]

Originally Posted by roob1

In most districts, individually administered intelligence measures for classroom placement are given by those trained in individual assessment at a graduate level. Training is comprehensive and beyond what a classroom teacher obtains. Classroom placement meaning placement outside of regular education.

Perhaps you are referring to the old, group administered IQ tests given in the 50's and 60's that may have been used for grouping students by ability.

Well, yeah, 1960's.
Whatchu, just a whippersnapper?

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I think the worst advice you can give to a child is recommend that they not go to college. Anyone can and should get a college degree. IQ has nothing to do with it. There are many dumb people with college degrees making big incomes, especially in the Government. The best Government jobs and white collar jobs go to those with a college degree. Being a plumber or carpenter is fine, but you are very limited in your employment opportunities and income potential.

Tell that to Bill Gates and Steve Jobs

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

They gave us IQ tests in 5th or 6th grade. It was the early 1970's. The only IQ test I've seen since then was one of those silly "Mensa tests" that get bandied about Facebook all the time. You know the ones: "Nine out of ten people couldn't figure these out! Can you?" Colleges didn't ask for IQ test results. They asked for SAT or Achievement scores. It's a good thing, too. I tanked the IQ tests because I don't do well with timed multiple choice tests. Yet I was reading on a college level in Junior High school. I also tanked my SATs, with around a 1300 combined score. And yet, I scored the top 10% in the school district, and the top 1% in my school, for the English Achievement.

Part of the problem with IQ tests is that they don't measure your intelligence. They measure your ability to correctly answer multiple choice questions in a short period of time. Considering that most of those questions only have 4 or 5 possible answers, you have a 20-25% chance of getting it right, just by taking a wild guess. Guessing based on "what seems like a good answer" will give you almost a 50% chance at guessing correctly. You don't need to know the answer. You only need to be a good guesser, and you need to be able to guess quickly.

The other part of the problem is bias, which someone already mentioned. The wikipedia entry is a good summary explanation of that.

[retiredguy123]

If IQ tests are going to deny some people from attending college, then it is wrong. I think that everyone can and should get a college degree. It's easy peasy and will be a lifetime asset. I have worked with some very low IQ people who had college degrees, and made hugh salaries just because of the degree.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

If IQ tests are going to deny some people from attending college, then it is wrong. I think that everyone can and should get a college degree. It's easy peasy and will be a lifetime asset. I have worked with some very low IQ people who had college degrees, and made hugh salaries just because of the degree.

I think I disagree. That is a little simplistic. There are degrees and there are degrees. People may be skilled in language and not in math. Some may be good in science but not at teaching. Some may simply not be good in college. I don't think that you mean "some very low IQ people" because that would mean an IQ of 70 or less. As I say, we are not born equal, but we are all born valuable and we all have limits to abilities.

I.Q. tests would not deny someone entrance to college. It isn't used as a screening test for entrance to anything. It shows the areas of strength and weakness in a persons ability to think, solve, reason, access. compare and learn.

In Austria, only the upper portion of the class scholastically are allowed to go to college and it is paid for by the government.

I keep thinking we are doing it wrong here. Too many people live off their student loans and never really learn much.. They keep getting money whether they do well or not. I think that sometimes we encourage people to scam the system when it comes to education.

[ColdNoMore]

IQ tests do not predict success.

EQ tests are a much better predictor of having a meaningful life that enriches others and in identifying the leading trait that produces all-around decent people...that being 'empathy.'


Intelligence Quotient versus Emotional Quotient

According to Harvard Business Review, emotional intelligence (EQ) is “the key attribute that distinguishes outstanding performers,” and is the leading differentiator between employees whose IQ and technical skills are approximately the same.

In fact, in a 2015 study, TalentSmart found that EQ is the strongest predictor of work performance, accounting for 58% of success in all fields.

[Abby10]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

I is smart.

We know you is.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Abby10

We know you is.

Dew is. In all the good ways.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think I disagree. That is a little simplistic. There are degrees and there are degrees. People may be skilled in language and not in math. Some may be good in science but not at teaching. Some may simply not be good in college. I don't think that you mean "some very low IQ people" because that would mean an IQ of 70 or less. As I say, we are not born equal, but we are all born valuable and we all have limits to abilities.

I.Q. tests would not deny someone entrance to college. It isn't used as a screening test for entrance to anything. It shows the areas of strength and weakness in a persons ability to think, solve, reason, access. compare and learn.

In Austria, only the upper portion of the class scholastically are allowed to go to college and it is paid for by the government.

I keep thinking we are doing it wrong here. Too many people live off their student loans and never really learn much.. They keep getting money whether they do well or not. I think that sometimes we encourage people to scam the system when it comes to education.

And in today's world they ask for the loan to be forgiven because they cannot afford to live their lifestyle and repay the loans.

I did not mean to hijack the thread intent....but being one who religiously paid their loan back, it is difficult to not comment...it does have a soothing effect (about all one can get)

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I keep thinking we are doing it wrong here. Too many people live off their student loans and never really learn much.. They keep getting money whether they do well or not. I think that sometimes we encourage people to scam the system when it comes to education.

The scam is if you go to college you are guaranteed to make a lot of money. If you go to a junior college that is very inexpensive you get another chance [HS was your first chance] to see if you have what it takes in academics.

If you go to college you may make a lot of money when the degree matches the jobs that are vacant and high paying in engineering, science, business, computer science. The positions are vacant because the subject is difficult for average people with average IQ's. Some schools will recruit students leading them to believe that borrowing $40k/year to study French, Children's Literature Writing, or Communications at a University or Private Institution will pay off in the long run. That is a con job IMHO. Just when you are starting adult life you have big debt.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Seems to be a built in knee jerk reaction on here to any facts, if they are not applauding.......I posted but was deleted because anything factual seems to be taboo.

Anyway, anyone interested in the birth of the student loan "forgiveness" etc., PLEASE read and learn the history and adjustments made to this plan that allows 60% of ALL college students to matriculate at higher learning institutions.

Student loans in the United States - Wikipedia

Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF - Wikipedia)

To say that the student loan program is a "scam" is scandalous in itself. It may need work and your critique should be taken up with our current government to do the WORK required.

Right now, it is scheduled to be totally done away in a manner but as we all know it is not that cut and dry, but before calling it a "scam".

Ted CruZ, Marco Rubio are two examples of folks who used student loans.

To submit this opportunity as a "scam" is just wrong. BETTER to criticize instead of WORKING to fix a beneficial program for our country.

Please note that no where in my comments do I refer to the student loans as a scam. My commentary is aimed at those who applied for and received loans, understanding their commitment/obligation to repay. Then, too many try to cry lack of affordability for having such an obligation and the beginning of their lives.
We all knew the financial obligation being undertaken when applying....no excuse for forgiving the loans....a bad practice from politicians working on building up a following!!

As in my original commentary, none of the above infers a scam.