[mneumann02]

As a gun owner and a believer in the right to bear arms, I feel compelled to make my first comment on TOTV. To refer to anyone who thinks something must be done about gun control as the "Gun Ban Crowd" and labeled as people who want to trample on the second amendment is the typical "Big Lie" used by the NRA and brainwashed NRA supporters. They will believe anything and repeat it if it can further their cause against any gun control. Do you really think our forefathers would have written that amendment with the language they did if they knew what weaponry was now available and being used in criminal acts on a daily basis? Can't we draw the line somewhere?

I have much hope for the future, because as the older anti-gun control voters die off, they will be replaced as voters by this new youth movement to do something about our crazy lack of good gun control laws. Perhaps only then will the politicians who have been bought by the NRA be voted out of office.

[billethkid]

There will be lack of progress as long as the anti gunners, pro gun banners, the politicians, the media, et al continue to present wrong/bad/false information.

The loose use of AR and what it does not mean....the use of statements like "...remove military assault rifles from the streets of America..." are incorrectly conveying/describing what is actually the case or being used.

We get the fact that the more onerous sounding the better, whether factual or correct or not.

It has been, is and will continue to be impossible to make any real progress regarding school shootings until such time as school shootings cease to become the anti gunners inspiration....and the focus shifts to the reality of the real causes school shootings take place.

We can all have what we think or believe about guns. We also know that what one likes there will always be another who dislikes the same.

What is conveniently being set aside is identifying the cause and DOING SOMETHING TO PREVENT further school shootings.

The continued haranguing about the tool used instead of why it is being used is the usual political pi$$ing contest resulting in no action.........until the next shooting.

If one is going to talk about guns, please do us all a favor and try to understand what one is talking about and not just parroting the politics/special interest/media fodder.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by mneumann02

As a gun owner and a believer in the right to bear arms, I feel compelled to make my first comment on TOTV. To refer to anyone who thinks something must be done about gun control as the "Gun Ban Crowd" and labeled as people who want to trample on the second amendment is the typical "Big Lie" used by the NRA and brainwashed NRA supporters. They will believe anything and repeat it if it can further their cause against any gun control. Do you really think our forefathers would have written that amendment with the language they did if they knew what weaponry was now available and being used in criminal acts on a daily basis? Can't we draw the line somewhere?

I have much hope for the future, because as the older anti-gun control voters die off, they will be replaced as voters by this new youth movement to do something about our crazy lack of good gun control laws. Perhaps only then will the politicians who have been bought by the NRA be voted out of office.

I keep hearing about these "good gun control laws".. Can someone please tell me what they would look like?

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

I keep hearing about these "good gun control laws".. Can someone please tell me what they would look like?

To be sung to the strains of "...some where over the rainbow..."

[perrjojo]

So guns are a problem. Our movies glorify killing and guns. Our video games give you more points for the more people you kill. This seems like a strange game to me. What about the fact that many of the shooters claimed to be left out, bullied and disenfranchised. Maybe we need to find a new culture to glorify in movies. Maybe we need to play different games. Maybe we need to teach our children love, kindness and respect. Why do we seem to always look for someone else to fix the problem? Why do we think it’s the government’s responsibility to fix what needs mending in our hearts?

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by perrjojo

So guns are a problem. Our movies glorify killing and guns. Our video games give you more points for the more people you kill. This seems like a strange game to me. What about the fact that many of the shooters claimed to be left out, bullied and disenfranchised. Maybe we need to find a new culture to glorify in movies. Maybe we need to play different games. Maybe we need to teach our children love, kindness and respect. Why do we seem to always look for someone else to fix the problem? Why do we think it’s the government’s responsibility to fix what needs mending in our hearts?

This started shortly after film became a reality. Somebody has blamed movies for whatever was their cause. Don't believe me? Try Google.

[rivaridger1]

As I suggested on another thread start by securing the guns. Enact legislation establishing strict liability for the sellers and owners of guns if they are not secured. Accompany it with large civil monetary fines. If you financially are able to purchase a gun, you also have the means to make sure it is secured. The father of the boy committing the latest atrocity owned a shipping business in Houston. Why were his guns not locked up somewhere were his son could not access them ? We all have heard the story were little Bobby bring a gun to school to show it to his friends. How about a $ 10,000 fine and 90 mandatory days in the county jail for the person who should have secured the gun. No one should have access to an unauthorized gun. If you own a gun, you should be thinking about its security everyday. This is about responsibility and no excuses for the failure to be responsible. In today's society no one wants to take the blame for anything they do wrong. Enact legislation which makes them think about the consequences of acting stupidly. Responsible adults will then either secure the guns or dispose of them. If you are less then responsible and something awful happens as a result, too bad, pay the fine and do jail time. Any further consequences are on you as well. Most of the gun owners responding to this post I suspect have their guns secured. Juveniles and criminals will not be able to access them unless they expend an awful lot of energy and time. An exception can be legally made for them. Gun locks, bedside safes, vaults all are available. Mandate their use. Little Bobby rarely will have access to bolt cutters and acetylene torches. Everyone should be able to own all the guns they want. They need to be secured. Mental health, well that is another issue but if you catch little Bobby with a torch maybe it is time to pay a visit to the local psychologist. As to your demented adult nephew using the bolt cutters, it probably would not be a bad idea to let the local police know about him.

[NoMoSno]

This kid also had a backpack full of pipe bombs as well as many at home. He learned to make them on You Tube.
Maybe it's time we started looking at why these kids are coming out of the oven, half baked.
In our school days, even if we didn't like a fellow student or teacher, we didn't wake up and think, hey I'm going to school today and try to kill everyone.

[retiredguy123]

What is interesting to me about this issue is that the more people try to promote gun control and a ban on guns, the more business gun dealers get. People react to gun control proposals by buying more guns, and that will continue.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by redwitch

But if enough people let their broadcasters and editors know they don’t want names publicized, the more the media will listen. We can talk with a button on the remote and a cancellation of newspapers and websites that give those names and show those pictures. We can boycott advertisers until they get message. If enough talk, the media will listen — there may and should be freedom of the press but news ain’t free.

100% right on! This has been proposed at least going back to 2015 (Newsweek). I didn't bother to back check any further as the basic point is that suggesting this proposal is at least 2-3 years old (and there are other similar reports that are easily Googled). The media has had plenty of time to enact a reasonable reporting structure for these events, yet nothing happened. Sensationalism in the media is their driver.

Further proof? Look no further than the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (link) reported average of 29 deaths per day related to driving and alcohol. Because this is spread around the country and is not in one event, it is not sensational enough for media coverage. How sad is it that there are more deaths on an annual basis due to alcohol and driving than there are mass shootings? (I abhor mass shootings, so for the flamer(s), don't even try it)

Perhaps it is time to call the media to task for not enacting such an approach.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Try Australia, Denmark, Sweden for a start.

I think Oz may actually have a similar culture to ours regarding the wild, Wild West attitude and adulation (why I don’t think gun laws would work here) but they’ve managed to ban guns except for farmers. Their last mass killing by gun was a murder-suicide on a farm this year. There have been a few stranger killings between 1996 and today (a car plowed into a crowd, a university shooting and a hostage situation — all I can remember at the top of my head). John Howard, the PM in 1996, flat out said he didn’t want Australia following in America’s footsteps. So, not a perfect record but a heck of a lot better than ours. Their children are not being murdered on a regular basis.

Unfortunately, the fact that other countries may have enacted a gun ban (I am not familiar with the types of bans in those countries listed so I can't speak to them), does not equate to a gun ban working in the United States.

Focusing initially and briefly on our criminal justice system, are they equal? For example, do they operate under the same search and seizure requirements that our police force must follow? Are criminals kicked free because of a spelling error on a warrant? What is the level of recidivism for their convicts? How are their crimes distributed (i.e. do they have more property crimes)or more personal crimes (murder, rape, assault, etc.)? Are the police respected or demonized? Are the criminals made into victims?

Are the children raised under the same environmental conditions as here in the US? What can parents in those countries do in terms of punishment for misbehaving children? Do they have the same mind numbing level of violence in their games? Or do the children actually develop socialization skills by going outside to play and interact with other children? What is the family dynamic like versus in the US?

I haven't even touched on other socio-economic conditions that would also have to be factored in and I am sure that there are other considerations that need to be compared that I have not listed.

Let's start at least with getting the media to stop making it a prize to be the best murderer in the US.

[Carl in Tampa]

OK GANG. LET'S GET BACK ON POINT.

You anti-gun, anti-NRA, anti-Second Amendment people must abandon your emotional, and irrational, feeling that the solution to our school shootings is gun control.

My original post explained why America can never be made into a gun free nation. If a total ban were passed upon gun possession in our country there would immediately be a Black Market underground market for firearms. Millions of guns would flood this market.

But, if this were not so, we would see greater numbers of guns smuggled from other countries, just as is true for illegal drugs.

Ban "assault weapons?" There is a video showing the rapid firing of a single-shot 12 gauge shotgun. Instead of just three rounds, this shooter could have had a large bag full of shells at his side.

Speed loading a single shot 12 ZRUS - YouTube

And, how about bombs? The Texas shooter had bombs. Did you know that you can make black power from three easily available elements? You can get two of them at the hardware store and you can make the third at home.

The emphasis needs to be on excluding the potential killers from schools. Hardened targets, with armed guards and effective security, is a first step. More emphasis on mental health observation of our adolescent population is another.

Someone on this thread asked about safety for children on the school bus before or after school. The same might be asked for when groups of kids hang out at the Mall or the drug store. There is no perfectly safe location.

The present subject is safety and security at the school building.

Nattering on about "sensible gun control laws" is time wasted. I have already demonstrated that even a total ban on guns would not be effective.

Work on mental health for adolescents, who often feel isolated, bullied, despondent, forlorn, or abandoned. In the years when I was a hostage negotiator, I also dealt with armed, suicidal people. The key to suicidal thoughts was often that a person felt "hopeless and helpless." My task was to restore some sense of hope and personal control to their lives. I was always successful.

Kids often know which of their schoolmates are in need of attention. Create an environment in which they feel comfortable in reporting these situations.

In the meantime, the immediate answer is to establish full security at the school buildings.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by mneumann02

As a gun owner and a believer in the right to bear arms, I feel compelled to make my first comment on TOTV. To refer to anyone who thinks something must be done about gun control as the "Gun Ban Crowd" and labeled as people who want to trample on the second amendment is the typical "Big Lie" used by the NRA and brainwashed NRA supporters. They will believe anything and repeat it if it can further their cause against any gun control. Do you really think our forefathers would have written that amendment with the language they did if they knew what weaponry was now available and being used in criminal acts on a daily basis? Can't we draw the line somewhere?

I have much hope for the future, because as the older anti-gun control voters die off, they will be replaced as voters by this new youth movement to do something about our crazy lack of good gun control laws. Perhaps only then will the politicians who have been bought by the NRA be voted out of office.

I think that we can all agree that our forefathers were at least reasonably intelligent, can we not? Assuming that we do agree there, then it would be reasonable to believe that at least some of them were aware of the progression of weapons use by their forefathers. I am not saying that they had a deep knowledge of what happened in prehistoric times, however it would be reasonable that they knew that swords, knives, etc. were used before the development of the first musket.

So, on this basis, I would agree with you that they would not necessarily know what the weapons of today would look like. However, given that they saw that there was an evolution in the weapons being used, it would be reasonable to assume that the weapons would continue to evolve, the time and method of evolution not known, but reasonably believed to continue onward.

Given the need for the development of the second amendment, and knowing that there would be changes to the weapons at some point in the future, perhaps that is why the forefathers used the terms, "the right to bear arms" versus "the right to bear muskets".

[rivaridger1]

Is insisting gun owners act responsibly and secure their guns " gun control ?

[billethkid]

If the politics of today were in play when the 2nd amendment (as well as all the others) there would be no such document for signing.

Somehow the politics of mine or nothing have replaced representing the people.

The so called representatives have become self appointed/annointed representatives of the party and forgotten the people.

It all gets back to the silent majority. That could easily demand change back to doing what is right for we the people.....not the party.

This is why there can be no progress or satisfaction when it comes to doing what is right for the safety of children in schools. The representatives are too caught up in the bidding of the party making them unable to serve the needs of the safety of the children.

The issue of guns is nothing more than an ONGOING, convenient distraction. The representatives do not have anything invested in the safety of the children....they have none in school....they have not suffered any loss....
until we demand other wise.....NOTHING WILL CHANGE!