[Polar Bear]

Many of those who believe that climate change is an extreme, immediate threat to the world and is almost entirely due to human activity group all those who don't agree with those views into the category "deniers". That may the single biggest thing I disagree with when I hear those folks espouse their beliefs.

Many people don't deny that the climate is changing. They also don't deny that human activity contributes to climate change. The points of disagreement relate to several things...the magnitude of mankind's contribution, the fact that climate has always changed and always will with or without mankind's contribution, the uncertainty of proposed "solutions" and their unintended consequences, and the feeling that if you don't absolutely agree with the extreme views of the climate change extremists, you are a "denier".

There are many folks who know that the climate is changing and know that mankind makes a contribution to that change. These same folks are determined to treat the environment with care and respect. That does not mean these folks believe humankind is single-handedly destroying the earth by living a typical 21st century life.

[biker1]

You are wrong on a number of issues. I am not aware of a single person who does not think the climate has/is/and will continue to change. You only need to look as far back as the most recent ice age to know this. The only issue is how much of the recent changes are anthropogenic and how much will the climate change in the future. These are both unknown and the subject of continued research. Predictions in the past have not been accurate. The climate models, upon which the dire forecasts are based, have been shown to be oversensitive to CO2 and have troubles simulating important circulations such as the ENSO. And for the record, is you actually look at the details of the Paris Accords you would realize that it is nothing more than a list of things that various countries may do, including increasing their CO2 emissions for the next couple of decades.

Originally Posted by blueash

What I have found interesting in this thread, and in the broader discussion of climate change is the new position taken by the faction that used to be called deniers. Five to ten years ago it was the claim that there was no global warming. There were vehement diatribes that the temperature data being produced by the US and the UN and multiple other sources were made up, what is now called "fake news" and that there in fact was no warming at all.

There was a huge attempt to falsely claim that some emails proved it was all cooked up data. This was labelled "Climategate" by the deniers. Click on the link to see what leading US legislators jumped on this as proving that global warming was a "hoax".

Now it seems everyone sees that the temperature data is real, both for the atmosphere and the oceans. And so the argument shifted to, yes it is getting warmer but it has nothing to do with human activity. It was all natural cycles and the ever changing climate alterations, and when was the last ice age. Some few here are still denying humanity's role or minimizing it.

But most of the posters are admitting that the climate is being impacted in a significant way by man. Some say, well we shouldn't do anything until China does something big, and India does something big. But at least therein is an acceptance that it is human action using fossil fuels that is causing this change. So that's progress.

I'd only add that if you believe in leadership and stewardship by our country in the world, that is a specious argument. China's economy is booming but very young and that nation is still climbing out of third world status. And they in fact have made major efforts to improve their environmental impacts. Sadly those changes are coming too slowly. Our nation has gone backwards in the last 3 years having abandoned goals and abrogated international agreements.

As to the initial question, and I worried about climate change? Not for myself or my children or grandchildren. We are secure here and will not be significantly impacted. But my view is broader than that. I am concerned for the devastation that a foot of ocean rise will cause to arable land in the third world. I am concerned about the loss of coral reefs and alterations in the phytoplankton which may destroy the fish life in our oceans causing starvation, but not here. Some experts have predicted that resulting famines will spark major international and regional wars. And I understand that what we do now will effect the world for decades. And what we fail to do will also have consequences.

So I am heartened that at least most of us are finally on board that warming is real and needs to be addressed. Overton's window has shifted.

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

I agree with the ideas, opinion, and sentiment you present in this post, 100% Just a little factual disagreement. The underlined section. Human action with regards to fossil fuels isn't "causing" the change. It is one major contributing factor to the speed of the change. Industry as a whole has a huge impact on climate change. It would be insane to expect our species to halt industry.

But it is not insane, and in fact, it is probably the ONLY sane consideration, to try and change our approach to industry.

Yes producing windmills and solar panels and electric or hybrid cars uses up a lot of fossil fuels and produces pollution.

But once these products have been made, they cease to continue using those fossil fuels, and they cease to produce pollution. Electricity -can- be generated without fossil fuels. And you can use that non-fossil fuel to charge batteries. I feel this is key to a new industrial revolution, which I also feel must occur if we want our planet to support our species in the next thousand years.

No, I won't be here to see it. Neither will your kids, or their kids, or their kids. But I personally don't want to spend the rest of my life with the attitude that "who cares, I won't have to deal with it, not my problem." That's not how I was raised.

If I can do even just one LITTLE thing to change how I approach waste, pollution, and the climate, then I'll do it. I don't feel I need to live in a cave off the grid and only eat what I can catch, in order to take personal responsibility for my part of this worldwide project. I can push for recycling legislation. I can join a club that re-uses, re-purposes things that might otherwise be thrown in a trash heap somewhere. I can get a couple of small rain barrels and use those to water my inside plants instead of tap water. I can buy my spring water by the gallon and just pour what I need into a re-useable smaller bottle to carry around with me. Or better yet, buy a filter for the faucet.

I can drive less, walk more. I can use my gas golf cart instead of the gas-powered car for short drives, since I use less with the cart.

I can buy more natural fiber clothing and fewer synthetics.

I can plant oxygen-producing plants. I can buy only trigger-spray household products instead of aerosols. Or I could even make my own, it's not especially difficult.

Big things, little things. If you can't afford or don't like the looks of solar panels, that's okay. Recycle more, that can be your part.

If EVERYONE did SOMETHING to help, we would see a shift in perception and approach to the situation. It would inspire more preservation, and less waste. The little thing you do, can inspire your neighbor to do more, which would inspire his neighbor to do more, and soon you have the entire neighborhood producing significantly less waste and contributing more to a healthy environment.

And then the next neighborhood notices how awesome it is, and they start taking steps. and so on and so forth.

It's only when people say "screw this, I won't be alive to see a change so why should I even try?" that everything comes to a stop and any attempt becomes futile.

Wonderfully said. I hope everyone will read your post. I understand that some will get confused because it is a complicated issue. Also, we actually have those that don’t care what happens to future generations. Third world nations cause a lot of the problem because they are trying to survive. Americans cause a lot of the problem because of selfish greed. Many drive gas hog cars and just don’t care. Many of us consume enormous amounts of food just because it’s there. Many of us have homes far bigger than we need and have the air conditioning running day and night, just because we feel privileged. Point is, it seems to be easier to overuse in all aspects of our life rather than at least TRY TO HELP.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by blueash

What I have found interesting





Our nation has gone backwards in the last 3 years having abandoned goals and abrogated international agreements.

.

I found this statement in your post, so very, very true!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

Sir, my auto of choice is the PRIUS. We have solar panels on the roof of our house. I don’t know if I am right, but I know I am trying to help.

Since two of my posts have been removed from this thread I will try to carefully avoid having that happen again.

The point of both of the removed post and this one is this. Some people believe that only they have the right answers. And doing things the way they are doing things will contribute to save the planet. There are many ways to save the planet and cut down on waste.

Actually, using rags instead of paper towels, and rewearing clothes that are not the latest style and saving your money and not buying things you don't need and taking good care of what you own are all ways of saving money, and energy and supplies. Like Polar Bear, many of us dislike being looked on by others who feel superior.

I will make the point again. Even doing all virtuous things is not going to reverse climate change and global warming. That is the argument. At this time we can frown at plastic straws, while we continue to pick up the paper in it's plastic slip. We can smugly drive our electric carts and continue to hire someone to cut our grass with gas engines. We can blame others and pontificate about doing our little bit. We can do our little bits, all of us, should do our little bits, all of us and it won't change anything about global warming. Mankind is not going to shut off it's gas engines. We may very well perish, or we may likely find another planet to live on in the future, to save, or ruin.

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Since two of my posts have been removed from this thread I will try to carefully avoid having that happen again.

The point of both of the removed post and this one is this. Some people believe that only they have the right answers. And doing things the way they are doing things will contribute to save the planet. There are many ways to save the planet and cut down on waste.

Actually, using rags instead of paper towels, and rewearing clothes that are not the latest style and saving your money and not buying things you don't need and taking good care of what you own are all ways of saving money, and energy and supplies. Like Polar Bear, many of us dislike being looked on by others who feel superior.

I will make the point again. Even doing all virtuous things is not going to reverse climate change and global warming. That is the argument. At this time we can frown at plastic straws, while we continue to pick up the paper in it's plastic slip. We can smugly drive our electric carts and continue to hire someone to cut our grass with gas engines. We can blame others and pontificate about doing our little bit. We can do our little bits, all of us, should do our little bits, all of us and it won't change anything about global warming. Mankind is not going to shut off it's gas engines. We may very well perish, or we may likely find another planet to live on in the future, to save, or ruin.

///

[sweethomeru]

Thank you RETIREDGUY123 for asking this question. My short answer is YES, I have drastically changed my habits. Specifically, I drive an electric car and have already signed a contract to install solar panels on my roof.

I just recently moved to TV I must say one of the first things I noticed was how few homeowners have solar panels. Many homeowners have solar pool heaters and solar lights but very few panels. Hmmm? Of all the states in the country, one would think Florida would have a lot more.

A little background, my last home was in Maryland and whenever I went to Home Depot there was always a solicitor from Solar City around asking customers about their home. I had just bought a home with a perfect southerly facing roof and so I decided to look into it. I can get deep into the economic feasibility of solar but in a nutshell, the payback for my panels after federal and Maryland tax credits was 7 years. After only 7 years, my panels would have paid me back my initial investment. Don't forget that the average solar panels will continue to produce electricity for over 30 years! When you do the math, it's actually a fantastic investment!

Instead of being concerned about how hot your attic gets in the summer wouldn't it be great to turn that around to a positive outcome? Solar Panels usually over produce during hot, sunny days and actually feed the grid when demand is at its greatest. I always enjoyed watching my 'net meter' run backwards during the daylight hours.

So, to answer the question again, yes, I have drastically changed my ways. I have solar panels that will supply my home, charge my electric car, my golf cart and my lawnmower. All from the sun.

I realize that one man's(woman's) actions won't make a dent in this huge problem, but I'm doing my part.

P.S. For those with a Netflix account, please watch 'Inside Bill's Brain: Decoding Bill Gates'. The third episode discusses the development of a traveling wave reactor which is a incredibly safe reactor that uses spent nuclear waste as fuel while emitting zero carbon dioxide. Incredible.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Since two of my posts have been removed from this thread I will try to carefully avoid having that happen again.

The point of both of the removed post and this one is this. Some people believe that only they have the right answers. And doing things the way they are doing things will contribute to save the planet. There are many ways to save the planet and cut down on waste.

Actually, using rags instead of paper towels, and rewearing clothes that are not the latest style and saving your money and not buying things you don't need and taking good care of what you own are all ways of saving money, and energy and supplies. Like Polar Bear, many of us dislike being looked on by others who feel superior.

I will make the point again. Even doing all virtuous things is not going to reverse climate change and global warming. That is the argument. At this time we can frown at plastic straws, while we continue to pick up the paper in it's plastic slip. We can smugly drive our electric carts and continue to hire someone to cut our grass with gas engines. We can blame others and pontificate about doing our little bit. We can do our little bits, all of us, should do our little bits, all of us and it won't change anything about global warming. Mankind is not going to shut off it's gas engines. We may very well perish, or we may likely find another planet to live on in the future, to save, or ruin.

I commend people who voluntarily decide to buy an electric car. But, only about 5 percent of the cars currently being used in the U.S. are electric. Even if the power companies are currently burning fossil fuels to produce the electricity, they could switch to solar or wind to produce that electricity, which would then power those electric cars. However, people are buying thousands of brand new gasoline cars every day, and those cars will be on the road burning gasoline for the next 20 years or longer, with no chance to ever use a renewable energy source. So, if the people who think our planet is in jeopardy within the next 10 years are correct, then we are very much behind the curve in fixing this problem. Just something to think about.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

... Even if the power companies are currently burning fossil fuels to produce the electricity, they could switch to solar or wind to produce that electricity, which would then power those electric cars...

The conclusion that this is definitely a good thing requires so many unproven assumptions.

[anothersteve]

U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked

Just saying.

We should all be thankful for, and good stewards of, this thing we call earth no matter who's right or wrong.

Steve

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
...

From that reference...

"A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth..."

A single UN official says...

That says so much about the attempts to alarm the world...whether you believe in man-made climate change or not.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So let's turn this around, since so many of you feel that so many of us who want to preserve nature, try to reduce waste, reduce pollution, reduce toxins, are wrong.

Tell us why you want to pollute the air? Tell us what your motivation is, for intentionally wasting, when you could - not waste? Why do you WANT to contribute to climate change? What's in it for you?

Because those are the only questions I can possibly have to ask, someone who is so dead set against preservation and ecological health.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

From that reference...

"A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth..."

A single UN official says...

That says so much about the attempts to alarm the world...whether you believe in man-made climate change or not.

That AP article was from 1989.
Steve

[Bay Kid]

I can't believe none are concerned with the damage from controlled burning. So much pollution.

[collie1228]

In the 70's the "experts" were predicting an upcoming global cooling (but the Time Magazine cover seen these days on the internet shouting about The New Ice Age is bogus - it never happened). Global warming is as much a political issue as a science issue, so it's hard to separate fact from opinion. The Green New Deal would do nothing about the biggest carbon problems - China and India, and would cost us trillions. There is little an individual can do, other than vote for politicians who are dumb and dumber on this issue. I guess I'll just die of old age and hope the doomsayers are wrong.