I have read the stories about the young man who has been captured by the Taliban. Thus far he has not been decapitated on film, and if we capture someone who knows where he might be, lets be sure we treat them with great dignity, make sure they get speedy trials, dont hurt them in any way and that will probably take care of things.

Yes,I am being sarcastic...does anybody understand that there is a large group of folks whose ENTIRE LIFE is based on killing us ?

Hey, things are different now. We have a new Commander in Chief and the respect of the world again. .


My prayers go out to the young soldier.

Originally Posted by Bucco

I have read the stories about the young man who has been captured by the Taliban. Thus far he has not been decapitated on film, and if we capture someone who knows where he might be, lets be sure we treat them with great dignity, make sure they get speedy trials, dont hurt them in any way and that will probably take care of things.

Yes,I am being sarcastic...does anybody understand that there is a large group of folks whose ENTIRE LIFE is based on killing us ?

The Taliban- which is the Mujahadeem that WE supported with guns, missiles and armaments is a ruthless group of religious/political despots. While they are clearly our enemy for a "protecting the enemy" (Al Queda), it becomes simplistic to say - "Oh, they're responsible for 9/11." No, they harbor terrorists and want to destroy not just the West, but anyone and anything that opposes their own bizarre fundamentalist interprestation of their holy scripture- just like Christian fundamentalists here and in Europe have done throughout the centuries. But as our president correctly says, "This is our time." It's no longer important that more than 5 milllion Europeans from all sides were killed during the Inquisition/Reformation/Counter-reformation.

Ancient history.

This is our time.

Radical Islamists- the Taliban and others want to, and have killed, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists- you name it. And we simplify this all down into whether a video shows one U.S. soldier being treated well by them, or them being abused and tortured American-style.

Yes, I am being sarcastic. Video and propaganda are such powerful forces that they will trump the "Yeah, Bring 'em on!" red-meat idiots every time. We alienated ourselves from the rest of the world, when we could have but didn't, and now hopefully ARE, uniting, to cast extremists as dangerous.

We will not stop the Taliban and those others from their holy war with military force or our former "cowboy diplomacy." Sadly, that brave soldier will most probably be murdered- but the Taliban will have scored much, much more than simply killing one American G.I. They will have shown the world that since the U.S. violated international law, there is no obligation to for them to adhere to it either.

WE are the very force that told them they are not subject to international law! Well, duh. The chickens, once again, ad nauseum, come home to roost.

It seems to me that pointing out the oblvious (That there are large groups of people out to destroy us) does not leas to a simple or single solution. It seems to me a bigger part of the SOLUTION is to encourage the rest of the world, including 2 billion Muslims, to realize that radical Islamic movements are the enemy to all cultures and societies, and the world would be better "siding" with us not out of military necessity, but out of its own desire to survive.

Unfortunately, as long as the U.S. and its allies support whatever dictator or regime suits us for the short-term, with no regard for longer-term interests, we will end up getting - sorry- kicked in the *&*%. And the only real winners are the religious fanatics (even including some radical American fundamentalists) who seek to destroy anything that challenges the twisted theocratic view of what God/Allah commmands the "culture" to be.

It's much more than simply us v. them.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

The Taliban- which is the Mujahadeem that WE supported with guns, missiles and armaments is a ruthless group of religious/political despots. While they are clearly our enemy for a "protecting the enemy" (Al Queda), it becomes simplistic to say - "Oh, they're responsible for 9/11." No, they harbor terrorists and want to destroy not just the West, but anyone and anything that opposes their own bizarre fundamentalist interprestation of their holy scripture- just like Christian fundamentalists here and in Europe have done throughout the centuries. But as our president correctly says, "This is our time." It's no longer important that more than 5 milllion Europeans from all sides were killed during the Inquisition/Reformation/Counter-reformation.

Ancient history.

This is our time.

Radical Islamists- the Taliban and others want to, and have killed, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists- you name it. And we simplify this all down into whether a video shows one U.S. soldier being treated well by them, or them being abused and tortured American-style.

Yes, I am being sarcastic. Video and propaganda are such powerful forces that they will trump the "Yeah, Bring 'em on!" red-meat idiots every time. We alienated ourselves from the rest of the world, when we could have but didn't, and now hopefully ARE, uniting, to cast extremists as dangerous.

We will not stop the Taliban and those others from their holy war with military force or our former "cowboy diplomacy." Sadly, that brave soldier will most probably be murdered- but the Taliban will have scored much, much more than simply killing one American G.I. They will have shown the world that since the U.S. violated international law, there is no obligation to for them to adhere to it either.

WE are the very force that told them they are not subject to international law! Well, duh. The chickens, once again, ad nauseum, come home to roost.

It seems to me that pointing out the oblvious (That there are large groups of people out to destroy us) does not leas to a simple or single solution. It seems to me a bigger part of the SOLUTION is to encourage the rest of the world, including 2 billion Muslims, to realize that radical Islamic movements are the enemy to all cultures and societies, and the world would be better "siding" with us not out of military necessity, but out of its own desire to survive.

Unfortunately, as long as the U.S. and its allies support whatever dictator or regime suits us for the short-term, with no regard for longer-term interests, we will end up getting - sorry- kicked in the *&*%. And the only real winners are the religious fanatics (even including some radical American fundamentalists) who seek to destroy anything that challenges the twisted theocratic view of what God/Allah commmands the "culture" to be.

It's much more than simply us v. them.

Not really sure where your coming from...but what is this international war violation your talking about? We do have a United Nations that has out lived it's usefulness. International law. That sounds like one government and laws for everybody? Who makes these laws. If a guy like Hitler breaks the law...do we take him to court?
The terrorists planned to take the towers down when Clinton decided to play the law-game after they bombed the towers the first time. Let me remind you that the "cowboy diplomacy" has kept us safe for 8 years.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

The Taliban- which is the Mujahadeem that WE supported with guns, missiles and armaments is a ruthless group of religious/political despots. While they are clearly our enemy for a "protecting the enemy" (Al Queda), it becomes simplistic to say - "Oh, they're responsible for 9/11." No, they harbor terrorists and want to destroy not just the West, but anyone and anything that opposes their own bizarre fundamentalist interprestation of their holy scripture- just like Christian fundamentalists here and in Europe have done throughout the centuries. But as our president correctly says, "This is our time." It's no longer important that more than 5 milllion Europeans from all sides were killed during the Inquisition/Reformation/Counter-reformation.

Ancient history.

This is our time.

Radical Islamists- the Taliban and others want to, and have killed, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists- you name it. And we simplify this all down into whether a video shows one U.S. soldier being treated well by them, or them being abused and tortured American-style.

Yes, I am being sarcastic. Video and propaganda are such powerful forces that they will trump the "Yeah, Bring 'em on!" red-meat idiots every time. We alienated ourselves from the rest of the world, when we could have but didn't, and now hopefully ARE, uniting, to cast extremists as dangerous.

We will not stop the Taliban and those others from their holy war with military force or our former "cowboy diplomacy." Sadly, that brave soldier will most probably be murdered- but the Taliban will have scored much, much more than simply killing one American G.I. They will have shown the world that since the U.S. violated international law, there is no obligation to for them to adhere to it either.

WE are the very force that told them they are not subject to international law! Well, duh. The chickens, once again, ad nauseum, come home to roost.

It seems to me that pointing out the oblvious (That there are large groups of people out to destroy us) does not leas to a simple or single solution. It seems to me a bigger part of the SOLUTION is to encourage the rest of the world, including 2 billion Muslims, to realize that radical Islamic movements are the enemy to all cultures and societies, and the world would be better "siding" with us not out of military necessity, but out of its own desire to survive.

Unfortunately, as long as the U.S. and its allies support whatever dictator or regime suits us for the short-term, with no regard for longer-term interests, we will end up getting - sorry- kicked in the *&*%. And the only real winners are the religious fanatics (even including some radical American fundamentalists) who seek to destroy anything that challenges the twisted theocratic view of what God/Allah commmands the "culture" to be.

It's much more than simply us v. them.

Yep. You support today those who are willing to support you today, even if it is a dictator, monarch or popularly-elected poo-bah. Why? Because that's the current lawful and internationally-recognized government for that country. If the government changes due to revolution, sale-of-the-century, bad gamble by some local, or a peaceful election, then you see if you can find a meeting-of-the-minds with the new leader(s).

First rule of business and government - you don't have to like them to work a deal with them.

All of this rationalization of the Taliban - whose history of barbarism to those opposing them is immense - strikes me strange? Where is all of the uproar about China (Socialist, brutal to Falun Gong, Tibet; atrocious human rights practices ongoing), Vietnam (Socialist, brutal to mountain tribal folk; still practices forms of torture upon those who backed the South from 1954-1975), Zimbabwe (the list of unspeakable acts is too long to type), Venezuela (Human Rights Watch just loves Chavez), and Russia (what's happening now in Chechnya is appalling). Are these countries and/or their leaders left-wing darlings, despite what they do, and dealing with them is okay because, well, just because?

Those however-many Muslims there are in other countries already realize what the radicals of that faith are doing all over the world. THEY KNOW! THEY REALIZE! What CNN and NBC hasn't told them, Al Jazeera has. The "silent majority" includes them. They choose not to oppose overtly and covertly for a multitude of reasons, but none of those reasons have anything do to with a few guys getting embarrassed or waterboarded. They are the same folk who watch the televised and photo'd torching and mutilation of bodies - before and after execution by a bullet to the head, or a sword on a neck, or by hanging, or by ambush-by-bomb - and consider it all as "just they way it is." And all of those things have been happening for over 30 years.

Radicals and extremists win when the "silent majority" sits on its collective cans and doesn't deal with the problem forcefully and thoroughly. The radicals and extremists never completely go away, or are eradicated - they just go underground if dealt with forcefully, and remain underground until conditions which keep them from employing their fanaticism deteriorate. Fanatics just don't "go away" and can fester for decades, and it's the responsibility of the majority to insure fanatics don't wreak mayhem and murder on the general public. It's not pretty, but it is what it is.

Most people really don't know what the Taliban really is. There are some bad dudes that are members of the Taliban, for sure. But they were and pretty much continue to be the government of Afghanistan since the mid-1990's. Oh, there's a "democratically elected" and notoriously corrupt "government" that supposedly governs the city of Kabul. But the rest of Afghanistan is still governed by the Taliban, or in a few places by local warlords. The Taliban is supported and tolerated by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, both supposedly our allies.

A large part of Afghanistan is comprised of the Pashtun tribe and is almost entirely Sunni Muslim and considers it's governance to be Sharia law. If that's not what the Afghans want, they are at least willing to accept that form of "government", notwithstanding all its shortcomings (anti modernism, anti-education, anti-women, religious fundamentalism, and on and on). If there is a majority of Afgahns or Muslims who don't like what's going on, they sure aren't willing to get involved to stop it.

It's been said by many that no foreign power can change Afghanistan thru military power. The solution must be a political one, they say. It seems that the U.S. has decided to pour money into Afghanistan in the form of development of schools, roads, utilities, etc. in an effort to convince the Afghans that there's a better form of government than the Taliban. Of course, we're getting young Americans killed by putting them in harm's way to "secure" parts of the country before we begin pouring in development money. We're pretty much doing it alone because there isn't an Afghan army, even in a nacent form, to begin to take control of their country. Most experts think that the chance of success of our strategy is remote. As SteveZ suggests, not much is going to happen until the "silent Muslim majority" begins to activate. And there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

Most experts are thinking that the Taliban has to be a part of the solution in Afghanistan, and is probably not a problem that can be eliminated.

I pretty much shared an opinion stated by Tom Freidman in Sunday's New York Times. Writing his most recent column in Afghanistan he said (regarding U.S. involvement in Afghanistan), "Why are we here? Who cares about the Taliban? Al Qaeda is gone. And if its leaders come back, well, that’s why God created cruise missiles."

Friedman went on to soften his opinion about simply leaving the country to the governance of the Taliban after visiting an elementary school somewhere in the Afghan countryside. He softened after observing the promise of a young generation of Afghan children who clearly want to learn.

I'm not sure. Not having the same personal epiphany that Freidman experienced, I'm still left with the feeling that we can't accomplish our objectives in Afghanistan, so why do we continue to sacrifice lives and treasure to try? Surely, if we continue our "Afghanistan strategy" we'll be there for decades--and we still might not wind up with we are hoping for.

Is staying there worth it? Or, as Friedman felt before he visited the Afghanistan school, is the question still valid...why are we there? If things heat up in a way we don't like, that's why God created cruise missles.

Hmmmm. They are bad and we are good. Is that too simple?

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

Originally Posted by Yoda

Hmmmm. They are bad and we are good. Is that too simple?

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

LOL Yep...Sometimes one can over think. Reminds me of Carter walking around the Rose Garden for over 400 days thinking,,,thinking,,,thinking,,,