Thanks!

The "you are with us or with the terrorists" comment struck me as something said mainly to help the domestic audience see its governmental leadership as being tough during tough times. What's said in public, and what's said behind diplomatic closed doors rarely is the same.

So because these guys are still alive that makes it ok?

What a total load of crap. barf

Nice article....given by people who were there.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/195089

Great article - thanks for sharing. The bottom line is these torture techniques do not represent American values, and the use of such by the Bush administration could have put American soldiers at risk and certainly did nothing as far as enhancing our position in the world. The bigger question is, should American officials who condoned these tactics be prosecuted? Personally I feel they should be, but it appears Obama and his administration are saying in effect "here are the facts, let's drop it and move forward".

"American Values" - I would hope the first and foremost was to protect as much as possible those we send in harm's way?

"Could have put American soldiers at risk" - How? People who use children as suicide bombers, cut the hands off kids who take a candy bar from US troops, send airplanes into buildings of office workers, blow up people at prayer, and behead their captives aren't affected by "kinder, gentler treatment" of their captured folk.

"Enhancing our position in the world" - How? By butt-smooching every bully in the world? And who's opinion elsewhere is important - folk the US historically has bled and died for so they don't now speak German, Japanese, Russian or Chinese as the directed national language of a conquered people? If their memories are so fleeting as to what we have done, do and will do for others, they know where they can go next.

"prosecuted" - Tell you what, let's start with the tax scofflaws who got a free pass from this administration and now hold appointed offices. And while we're at it, will all the folk looking to prosecute those trying to protect our troops please step forward, join the CIA , DIA, FBI, NCTC, and the various other military and civilian intelligence organizations, get trained and deployed in covert and overt operations, and gather/process/analyze the information necessary to protect deployed troops, and put yourself in the same risk pool as these folk? Its really easy (and a little cowardly) to judge from a long and safe distance away, with no responsibilities for the outcome.

The intelligence business is not like a James Bond movie or Ludlum novel. It is a rough, tough and difficult business, with the main problem being that there is often a very short and finite time period to get the intel. It does no good to get the intel ten minutes late, and that's what happens all too often due to the other guy's unwillingness to reveal salient data until the information is valueless. The time pressure to get the intel is severe and real, because delays result in friendly casualties.

I have no sorrow for anyone waterboarded, sleep-deprived or any other interrogation technique, when the information they have is necessary to protect American lives, miltary and civilian. Whatever discomfort the interrogatee endures is a whole lot less than the wounded or killed troop, or the family who suffers with or mourns their troop, or the unlucky individuals who have to deliver the news. You can have all the sympathy for the interrogatee - my empathy is with the troops and their families.

NO, it was given by just ONE of the people who was there for just part of the interrogations. As in all things there are two sides to every issue and this report gives only one of them, with the other side unable to talk because of the classified nature of the situation.

However, this does at least put to rest the common claim by the left - that Zubdayah was just a small fish who could not provide any useful information.

I continue to have difficulty accepting the
 

notion of the cruelty of the points of discussion by those who do not have ANY first hand knowledge of the subject matter. It is just to simple and easy to present an intellectual view of the subject.

The only true go-no-go gauge on the use of any of the methods can be when there is a REAL involvement by those maintaining their so called high ground on the subject.

If one of their loved ones was being held by those who would behead one in the blink of an eye....and if there was someone in captivity who could reveal where they were to allow intervention....only then can you provide a real opinion on the subject.

Also if the same lunatics that are sworn to kill as many American men, woman and children as possible has a WMD being readied for use on your hometown and there was one in captivity who could advise where it was to enable stopping the massacre....ONLY then can you provide a real opinion on the subject.

No real personal loss involvement on an individuals part can not possibly yield a true perspective. However, if only media educated one can understand the erroneous positions being pontificated!!!

BTK

Once again..
 

great post from you, Steve. Thank goodness, someone understands.

No matter how you spin it torture is wrong...its UnAmerican. I don't want to give anyone a reason to torture my nephews who serve this country.

It is beyond me why any of you can believe it was ok to waterboard these prisoners.

The United States and the rest of the world have denouced this practice. Do you really want to be lumped in with Khemr Rouge?

Get serious.

cologal It is appreciated one would want to not have a
 

loved one exposed for what ever reason. What we do or don't do will not affect potential captors. On the other hand per my earlier posts, if your nephew, or any other Americans were held by these butchers of humans, and if there was a way to find out how to get to them to be rescued from being butchered, by interrogating one that knows I suspect strongly one's definitions of what is acceptable or not would be very different.

What ever methods we use to garner information we are not killing anybody and the end result is an upset prisoner at the minimum and at the maximum we may have gained information to save American lives.
We are the only nation on earth that has such lofty measures and expect the rest of the planet to follow our definition. Well they don't. They never have.

Repeating....what ever it takes to save American lives and suppress the butchers.

BTK

And that someone would be John McCain. McCain has long argued that the Bush Administration overstepped its legal authority by approving techniques like waterboarding, and has successfully championed two efforts to try to limit the White House to the plain language of international treaties, which ban cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. McCain has also spoken in opposition to other techniques in the CIA arsenal like sleep deprivation and the use of stress positions, both of which were employed by the North Vietnamese during McCain's captivity as a prisoner of war and may still be employed by the CIA.

I can truly appreciate your concern for your nephews, and it is wonderful they have family who are concerned for their safety.

However, what any Al Qa-ida interrogator or POW guard will or will not do will not change in any matter whether the US puts up all prisoners at the Palmer House in Chicago with 24/7 room service or let's everyone out after photo/prints on their own recognizance.

Their mindset and actions are based on their motives and not our prisoner handling or interrogation methods, as they have shown over and over again against not just allied military , but also the civilians from many other nations who are within Iraq and Afghanistan and have been taken and abused by Al Qa-Ida for no reason other than being there to give aid, report the news, or just pave the roads.

As far as Al Qa-ida is concerned, they are what they are, and are also content to render extreme harm and death on fellow Iraqis and Afghanis. They just don't care.......

I have tremendous respect for Sen. McCain and what he and others endured. That being said, he never has had the responsibility to collect, process, analyze and disseminate intelligence products. That would be like an intelligence specialist commenting on Naval Air and tactical close air support operations - how close to friendly lines is too close, and whether certain types of ordnance (napalm, high explosive, etc.) are appropriate or inhumane. Again, as with any elected official, being elected does not make you an expert - it just gives you access to public forum.

Steve....thank you for understanding my concern. I have found that even though my nephews are grown I still have a mental picture of each of them frozen in time.

I do think that there are real threats from Muslim extremist's which have to be dealt with. On that we can agree....perhaps we will have to agree to disagree on the waterboarding issue.

Take Care.

I can appreciate the feelings of those who feel 'the moral high ground' regarding enhanced interrogation techniques. However, are you willing to put you money, in other words your family's lives, on the line. We know on the basis of statements of two heads of the CIA, George Tenant and Porter Goss, that these techniques have proven invaluable and have saved many lives.

I, for one, want my two sons who are in the military to be provided with every bit of intelligence that can help them stay alive. Others here may believe that it is perfectly OK if the children or grandchildren's lives are lost when the loss could have been prevented. I do not understand your way of thinking. You believe that lives, such as Cologal's nephews, are expendable just to make you feel good!? If you feel that way, fine, take a gun and shoot them yourself - save Al Qa-ida the trouble. Just do not needlessly endanger my sons.

I'm with you, BBQMan. I have never understood this thinking. It blows my mind.