The editorial in the WSJ today was interesting. Not sure I agree with all, HOWEVER....

"Mark down the date. Tuesday, April 21, 2009, is the moment that any chance of a new era of bipartisan respect in Washington ended. By inviting the prosecution of Bush officials for their antiterror legal advice, President Obama has injected a poison into our politics that he and the country will live to regret."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124044375842145565.html


I suspect that President Obama will find some way to be "immune" and ascend above this firestorm, but so typical of an administration that is more political than any in many years, however preaches a different beat to us all.

Again...dont listen to what he says...watch what he does !!

Bucco...thanks for posting an enlightening, if not disturbing article. The fact that Obama's administration selectively witch hunts is understated.

The phrase, "damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't", comes to mind.

Originally Posted by BobKat1

The phrase, "damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't", comes to mind.

He DIDNT have to release the memos....

He DIDNT have to say lets move forward, etc.

He DIDNT have to back off on his original statements

ETC, ETC, ETC

Oh and he might have made sure ALL pertinent information was included when he released it !!!!

And if you dont think that he and Emanual knew what each other was going to say, you are living in a dream world. Axlerod, his political guru (the Karl Rove of this administration) who meets with him at LEAST 3 times a week to discuss politics and polls had a hand.

We shall see how "politically and legally bulletproof" Speaker Pelosi, Senator Kennedy, Secretary Rodham-Clinton, VP Biden and others within the Democratic Party are when the subpoenas start flying. They were in the Congressional middle of it.

Originally Posted by Bucco

He DIDNT have to release the memos....
He DIDNT have to say lets move forward, etc.
He DIDNT have to back off on his original statements
ETC, ETC, ETC

Oh and he might have made sure ALL pertinent information was included when he released it !!!!

While he didn't have to release the memos, I'm glad he did. That was part of why I signed on to the Obama campaign to begin with. It should all come out as long as legitimate national secrurity concerns are not threatened.

Dick Cheney is requesting that the information gathered from these techniques be released as well. He's absolutely correct. If an independent source can verify that x number of terrorists were caught, or x number of plots were foiled, that would be fine with me. No need to know the details, just the effectiveness.

And if there's dirt, and it has Democratic fingerprints, let their hands be scanned as well.

Two interesting tidbits so far. Pelosi swears she was not told about the "Enhanced" techniques, and AG Eric Holder states that he has no documents that speak of any success from the interrogations. Doesn't mean they don't exist, just that they are not at Justice.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

While he didn't have to release the memos, I'm glad he did. That was part of why I signed on to the Obama campaign to begin with. It should all come out as long as legitimate national secrurity concerns are not threatened.

Dick Cheney is requesting that the information gathered from these techniques be released as well. He's absolutely correct. If an independent source can verify that x number of terrorists were caught, or x number of plots were foiled, that would be fine with me. No need to know the details, just the effectiveness.

And if there's dirt, and it has Democratic fingerprints, let their hands be scanned as well.

Two interesting tidbits so far. Pelosi swears she was not told about the "Enhanced" techniques, and AG Eric Holder states that he has no documents that speak of any success from the interrogations. Doesn't mean they don't exist, just that they are not at Justice.

The information IS THERE AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN !!!

The President simply decided NOT to release it all !!

Wonder why...this is by far the one most political WH in years and years !

Should the next Republican administration decide that the use of drones in Afghanastan to bomb and kill fall in the catagory of war crimes, will the next President then release notes and begin an investigation ?

Yes, we sure do want to move forward....

"The Obama administration agreed late Thursday to release dozens of photographs depicting alleged abuses at U.S. prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush White House."

AND...during the campaign I mentioned the groups that would have power in this administration...one was the ACLU...

"This will constitute visual proof that, unlike the Bush administration's claim, the abuse was not confined to Abu Ghraib and was not aberrational," said Amrit Singh, a lawyer for the ACLU, which reached the agreement as part of a long-running legal battle for documents related to anti-terrorism policies under President George W. Bush."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4199113.story

This whole "abuses" and "torture" diatribe intrigues me. There is no quantifiable definition. It's sort of like pornography and beauty - the "I'll know it when I see it" floating standard that ebbs and flows with the political tide.

Anything can be called "torture."

1. How about:
- Making someone feel like they are going to drown, but all the while the person is in no danger - is that torture?
- Keeping someone isolated from others so as to not allow corruption of testimony - is that torture?
- Embarrassment or cultural discomfort to any degree - is that torture?

2. How about:
- Breaking bones and not treating the injuries - is that torture?
- Physical beatings with fists and clubs - is that torture?
- Making injured people march long distances, and killing those who stumble - is that torture?
- Slave labor 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, ceasing only at death - is that torture?

Number 1 above is the most the US has actually done.
Number 2 is what our citizens have endured at the hands of opponents, specifically Japan, Germany, China, North Vietnam, USSR and Iraq.

Before we start calling our interrogation practices inhumane or "torture," take a hard and long look at what the international standard of behavior has been when it has been Americans as the recipients of opponent action. In every comparison, we are indeed the "kindler, gentler" folk.

Amen.

by profession which means they know what to say, or not to say and when including lying with the aid of the letter of the law and or hiding behind the letter of the law. Good example ...Holder...no documents therefore must not have happened...lawyer speak!!!

Does it matter that it is another complete waste of time? That it contradicts Obama's look forward promise (another lie?)? That absolutely nothing of use will come from the investigation? There are much more important things to be dealt with....but that is the real reason to conduct the witch hunt...it keeps the public's eye off the real issues.

What is being demonstrated for all to see (if they look) the politicians will say what ever the audience wants to hear and next week completely reverse their stance as if last week did not occur. Or like Pelosi attending meetings and claiming she did not hear, was not informed, did not know.....BS!

Obama has created a political liability by allowing an opposition party hunting liscence.....and that is all it is.

Benefit to we the people? Of course....none!

BTK

Originally Posted by ptownrob

While he didn't have to release the memos, I'm glad he did. That was part of why I signed on to the Obama campaign to begin with. It should all come out as long as legitimate national secrurity concerns are not threatened.

Dick Cheney is requesting that the information gathered from these techniques be released as well. He's absolutely correct. If an independent source can verify that x number of terrorists were caught, or x number of plots were foiled, that would be fine with me. No need to know the details, just the effectiveness.

And if there's dirt, and it has Democratic fingerprints, let their hands be scanned as well.

Two interesting tidbits so far. Pelosi swears she was not told about the "Enhanced" techniques, and AG Eric Holder states that he has no documents that speak of any success from the interrogations. Doesn't mean they don't exist, just that they are not at Justice.

Pelosi is damaged goods, a loose cannon and a liability for the Democratic Party. Her most recent denial will likely prove damaging to her political future.

I would like the torture issue to be investigated mainly because I have 2 nephews in the military. We should not have tortured anyone for any reason...now we have to make this right.

I would not support a long term investigation of the Bush Administration like the one conducted against the Clinton Admistration... It cost to much and in the end found nothing.

Originally Posted by cologal

I would like the torture issue to be investigated mainly because I have 2 nephews in the military. We should not have tortured anyone for any reason...now we have to make this right.

I would not support a long term investigation of the Bush Administration like the one conducted against the Clinton Admistration... It cost to much and in the end found nothing.

Again, the question is - what is "torture?" It seems the claim is torture is anything that is "not nice." Again, in comparison to the rest of the world, we use kid glove behavior. What is "right?"

Originally Posted by SteveZ

This whole "abuses" and "torture" diatribe intrigues me. There is no quantifiable definition. It's sort of like pornography and beauty - the "I'll know it when I see it" floating standard that ebbs and flows with the political tide.

Anything can be called "torture."

1. How about:
- Making someone feel like they are going to drown, but all the while the person is in no danger - is that torture?
- Keeping someone isolated from others so as to not allow corruption of testimony - is that torture?
- Embarrassment or cultural discomfort to any degree - is that torture?

2. How about:
- Breaking bones and not treating the injuries - is that torture?
- Physical beatings with fists and clubs - is that torture?
- Making injured people march long distances, and killing those who stumble - is that torture?
- Slave labor 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, ceasing only at death - is that torture?

Number 1 above is the most the US has actually done.
Number 2 is what our citizens have endured at the hands of opponents, specifically Japan, Germany, China, North Vietnam, USSR and Iraq.

Before we start calling our interrogation practices inhumane or "torture," take a hard and long look at what the international standard of behavior has been when it has been Americans as the recipients of opponent action. In every comparison, we are indeed the "kindler, gentler" folk.

Amen.

To the point,as usual. Thanks Steve